30.06 on INSIDE doors

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton


jkurtz
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:12 pm

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#16

Post by jkurtz » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:04 pm

AJSully421 wrote:Step 1. Join Texas Defense Force Security- the only not for profit volunteer Security Company in the State of Texas.
Do you have any more information about this? I tried to Google it, but the only information that comes up is about the Texas State Guard. Is there a direct website you can provide?

User avatar

AJSully421
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Benbrook / SW Fort Worth

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#17

Post by AJSully421 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:32 am

jkurtz wrote:
AJSully421 wrote:Step 1. Join Texas Defense Force Security- the only not for profit volunteer Security Company in the State of Texas.
Do you have any more information about this? I tried to Google it, but the only information that comes up is about the Texas State Guard. Is there a direct website you can provide?
PM Sent.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.


priusron
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:44 am

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#18

Post by priusron » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:07 am

Can you send me info also.


Soccerdad1995
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 3440
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:03 pm

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#19

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:53 am

priusron wrote:Can you send me info also.
# me too
Ding dong, the witch is dead


roadkill
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#20

Post by roadkill » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:20 pm

priusron wrote:Can you send me info also.
Me three

User avatar

Keith B
Moderator
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 17943
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#21

Post by Keith B » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:55 pm

If you are a ham radio operator and a member of ARES, RACES or are a SKYWARN spotter you should qualify as well.
TPC 46.01
(18) “Volunteer emergency services personnel” includes a volunteer firefighter;
an emergency medical services volunteer as defined by Section 773.003, Health
and Safety Code; and any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for
the benefit of the general public during emergency situations
. The term does
not include a peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer, as those terms
are defined by Section 1701.001, Occupations Code, who is performing law
enforcement duties.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4

User avatar

AJSully421
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Benbrook / SW Fort Worth

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#22

Post by AJSully421 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:01 pm

Keith B wrote:If you are a ham radio operator and a member of ARES, RACES or are a SKYWARN spotter you should qualify as well.
TPC 46.01
(18) “Volunteer emergency services personnel” includes a volunteer firefighter;
an emergency medical services volunteer as defined by Section 773.003, Health
and Safety Code; and any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for
the benefit of the general public during emergency situations
. The term does
not include a peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer, as those terms
are defined by Section 1701.001, Occupations Code, who is performing law
enforcement duties.
That is the correct definition, but when you look at the bottom of 46.035, it says “while performing emergency services.” So if you are a HAM, and there is an emergency that you are actively working on a radio... sure. Just because your wife is in the hospital... not so much.

You having a Level 4 Body Guard License with her on a contract, you can waltz right in to any hospital, regardless of signs, with zero worry of being prosecuted.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

User avatar

Keith B
Moderator
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 17943
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#23

Post by Keith B » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:13 pm

AJSully421 wrote:
You having a Level 4 Body Guard License with her on a contract, you can waltz right in to any hospital, regardless of signs, with zero worry of being prosecuted.
You still have to be performing your duties, so if your contracted family member is not with you, then you can't legally walk past the sign.

I was just stating we have a lot of hams on the forum and this wold apply when engaged in those activities.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4

User avatar

AJSully421
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Benbrook / SW Fort Worth

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#24

Post by AJSully421 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:36 pm

Keith B wrote:
AJSully421 wrote:
You having a Level 4 Body Guard License with her on a contract, you can waltz right in to any hospital, regardless of signs, with zero worry of being prosecuted.
You still have to be performing your duties, so if your contracted family member is not with you, then you can't legally walk past the sign.

I was just stating we have a lot of hams on the forum and this wold apply when engaged in those activities.
Right, but if your duties are guarding your own wife and kids, then so long as one of them is either with you, or you are going to meet or drop them off, then you are good.

Simply having a ham radio clipped to your belt will not qualify under what you are talking about. There would have to be an emergency requiring Hams that would usually be some mass casualty, weather related emergency or other fairly major emergency condition. Your example requires a specific event... mine is a day-to-day thing.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.


TreyHouston
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1380
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:00 pm
Location: Tomball

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#25

Post by TreyHouston » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:08 pm

AJSully421 wrote:
Keith B wrote:If you are a ham radio operator and a member of ARES, RACES or are a SKYWARN spotter you should qualify as well.
TPC 46.01
(18) “Volunteer emergency services personnel” includes a volunteer firefighter;
an emergency medical services volunteer as defined by Section 773.003, Health
and Safety Code; and any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for
the benefit of the general public during emergency situations
. The term does
not include a peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer, as those terms
are defined by Section 1701.001, Occupations Code, who is performing law
enforcement duties.
That is the correct definition, but when you look at the bottom of 46.035, it says “while performing emergency services.” So if you are a HAM, and there is an emergency that you are actively working on a radio... sure. Just because your wife is in the hospital... not so much.

You having a Level 4 Body Guard License with her on a contract, you can waltz right in to any hospital, regardless of signs, with zero worry of being prosecuted.

You guys are not reading this right. (Editing now)
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:

User avatar

Keith B
Moderator
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 17943
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#26

Post by Keith B » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:39 pm

TreyHouston wrote:
You guys are not reading this right. (Editing now)
How are we not reading it right?
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4


Soccerdad1995
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 3440
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:03 pm

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#27

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:15 pm

Keith B wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:
You guys are not reading this right. (Editing now)
How are we not reading it right?
I'm anxiously awaiting this as well. Here is my take. For non-statutorily restricted locations like a private residence or private business, 30.06 would be the relevant standard, not 46.035. And 30.06 does not include any requirement for a Volunteer Emergency Services Personnel to be actively providing services. A VESP would need to be actively providing services to be OK for carry in statutorily restricted locations, however. So donating blood at a hospital, or volunteering at a blood drive would be OK if the blood drive was in response to an emergency situation.

Personally, I am not as concerned about statutorily prohibited locations since I am in such places at most 1% of my time.
Ding dong, the witch is dead


TreyHouston
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1380
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:00 pm
Location: Tomball

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#28

Post by TreyHouston » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:50 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Keith B wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:
You guys are not reading this right. (Editing now)
How are we not reading it right?
I'm anxiously awaiting this as well. Here is my take. For non-statutorily restricted locations like a private residence or private business, 30.06 would be the relevant standard, not 46.035. And 30.06 does not include any requirement for a Volunteer Emergency Services Personnel to be actively providing services. A VESP would need to be actively providing services to be OK for carry in statutorily restricted locations, however. So donating blood at a hospital, or volunteering at a blood drive would be OK if the blood drive was in response to an emergency situation.

Personally, I am not as concerned about statutorily prohibited locations since I am in such places at most 1% of my time.
:iagree: that’s correct. Yes, sorry guys. I promise I will limit coming into the conversation like an idiot! :tiphat:
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:

User avatar

AJSully421
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Benbrook / SW Fort Worth

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#29

Post by AJSully421 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:04 am

Trey and SoccerDad,

I hear what you are saying... but there is more to it than just that.

I used the example of a family member in the hospital on purpose. The conundrums of the law are that Hospitals are listed in 46.035 (b)(4) as being statutorily off-limits. Then in 46.035 (i), it states that (b)(4) does not apply if you were not given effective notice under 30.06 or .07. Then 46.035 (m) goes on to mention VESPs who are performing emergency services have a defense to prosecution under sections (b) and (c).

I agree that 30.06 pretty much says you have a defense to prosecution all of the time. But it is a Defense to Prosecution, not an exemption, or a "does not apply"... I think that we have beat that dead horse enough around here.

What 46.035 (i) does not say is that (b)(4) does not apply if you have a defense to prosecution under 30.06 or .07... it says if you were not given effective notice... such as if there was no sign, or it was an old sign, or too small of a sign, wrong wording, not contrasting against the background, and so on.

So, in this specific example of a hospital, the 30.06 sign is not the only issue, it is that the 30.06 sign “activates” 46.035 (b)(4) unless you are working an emergency.

I will tell you, using the Ham radio example... if I were to go to court, I wouldn’t want anything less than a state or federal disaster declaration for the location where I am working the radio. But that is just me, maybe your bar is set elsewhere.

46.035, 30.06 and 30.07 apply to LTC holders licensed under Chapter 411 of the Government code... that is source of their "permission to carry".

As a body guard, my "permission to carry" comes from Section 1702 of the Occupations Code, not 411 of the Government code. As such I am not subject to those laws while I am performing my duties, and visiting my wife or kid in the hospital, who is under contract, would qualify as "performing my duties".

By the way... you should also take note that the prohibition on carrying in 51% establishments is also listed in 46.035 under (b)(1). "Designated Carrier and Driver" anyone???
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.


Soccerdad1995
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 3440
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:03 pm

Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#30

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:57 am

AJSully421 wrote:Trey and SoccerDad,

I hear what you are saying... but there is more to it than just that.

I used the example of a family member in the hospital on purpose. The conundrums of the law are that Hospitals are listed in 46.035 (b)(4) as being statutorily off-limits. Then in 46.035 (i), it states that (b)(4) does not apply if you were not given effective notice under 30.06 or .07. Then 46.035 (m) goes on to mention VESPs who are performing emergency services have a defense to prosecution under sections (b) and (c).

I agree that 30.06 pretty much says you have a defense to prosecution all of the time. But it is a Defense to Prosecution, not an exemption, or a "does not apply"... I think that we have beat that dead horse enough around here.

What 46.035 (i) does not say is that (b)(4) does not apply if you have a defense to prosecution under 30.06 or .07... it says if you were not given effective notice... such as if there was no sign, or it was an old sign, or too small of a sign, wrong wording, not contrasting against the background, and so on.

46.035, 30.06 and 30.07 apply to LTC holders licensed under Chapter 411 of the Government code... that is source of their "permission to carry".

As a body guard, my "permission to carry" comes from Section 1702 of the Occupations Code, not 411 of the Government code. As such I am not subject to those laws while I am performing my duties, and visiting my wife or kid in the hospital, who is under contract, would qualify as "performing my duties".

By the way... you should also take note that the prohibition on carrying in 51% establishments is also listed in 46.035 under (b)(1). "Designated Carrier and Driver" anyone???
I can't speak for Trey, but I believe that you and I are in agreement. By "statutorily restricted locations" I was including locations that are restricted in 46.035 but that require 30.06 notice such as hospitals. Bars also fit in the same situation. For those types of locations, being a VESP would not be enough, unless you were actively engaged in performing emergency services. So if there is a hurricane, and the relief shelter you are volunteering at happens to be in a posted 51% location, you are OK, but being a designated driver during a non-emergency situation is not enough.

I think that what you are saying is the benefit to being a licensed bodyguard is that you are "on duty" much more often than a VESP would be engaged in providing emergency services, since you would be "on duty" whenever your family / protectee is present. But this distinction only really matters for statutorily prohibited locations. If we are talking about the common situation of encountering a 30.06 sign while walking into a store, a VESP does not need to be performing emergency services at all. Since this latter situation is much more likely, for me, I personally am mainly focused there as opposed to hospitals / bars, etc.

And I am not worried about the distinction regarding a "defense to prosecution". I will just say that if one is terrified at the thought of "taking a ride" then they probably should not carry a gun past a sign that meets all the wording and size requirements of 30.06, regardless of anything else.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

Post Reply

Return to “General Texas CHL Discussion”