Carrying on reservations

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Venus Pax
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Carrying on reservations

#1

Post by Venus Pax » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:21 am

What are the laws regarding traveling on Native American reservations and carrying, specifically if you're staying on the highway?

How would this work while stopping for restroom breaks or fuel?
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Re: Carrying on reservations

#2

Post by apostate » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:36 am

I follow State law. Tribal courts generally have jurisdiction over tribe members only.


WTR
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Re: Carrying on reservations

#3

Post by WTR » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:15 am

apostate wrote:I follow State law. Tribal courts generally have jurisdiction over tribe members only.

WRONG. You go kill an Elk on tribal land and you will see who has jurisdiction..... Same for up holding order in a tribal building ( casino, restaurant ). Or if they may issue a ticket on a Federal highway running through the reservation. That being said I have had some type of firearm with me 100% of the time as I have travel through various reservation. I have stopped for fuel, use the RR or stop to buy a hunting license on many reservations...... Never had a problem. By the way, I have eaten in restaurants atached to a casino and they are.posted.

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ScottDLS
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Re: Carrying on reservations

#4

Post by ScottDLS » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:22 am

WTR wrote:
apostate wrote:I follow State law. Tribal courts generally have jurisdiction over tribe members only.

WRONG. You go kill an Elk on tribal land and you will see who has jurisdiction..... Same for up holding order in a tribal building ( casino, restaurant ). Or if they may issue a ticket on a Federal highway running through the reservation. That being said I have had some type of firearm with me 100% of the time as I have travel through various reservation. I have stopped for fuel, use the RE or stop to buy a hunting license on many reservations...... Never had a problem.
Tribal Nations have no CRIMINAL authority over non-Indians (actually non-tribe members). This is long standing SCOTUS interpretation of Federal law. They have considerable civil jurisdiction though, perhaps to include seizing your firearm, vehicle, and perhaps even to detain you for a period of time. However, if you are carrying a firearm in accordance with Federal and State law, you can not be criminally sanctioned for such on Indian land if you're a non-Indian. Many states grant tribal police State jurisdiction as peace officers that allow them to charge non-Indians or Indians under state criminal law.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: Carrying on reservations

#5

Post by WTR » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:31 am

ScottDLS wrote:
WTR wrote:
apostate wrote:I follow State law. Tribal courts generally have jurisdiction over tribe members only.

WRONG. You go kill an Elk on tribal land and you will see who has jurisdiction..... Same for up holding order in a tribal building ( casino, restaurant ). Or if they may issue a ticket on a Federal highway running through the reservation. That being said I have had some type of firearm with me 100% of the time as I have travel through various reservation. I have stopped for fuel, use the RE or stop to buy a hunting license on many reservations...... Never had a problem.
Tribal Nations have no CRIMINAL authority over non-Indians (actually non-tribe members). This is long standing SCOTUS interpretation of Federal law. They have considerable civil jurisdiction though, perhaps to include seizing your firearm, vehicle, and perhaps even to detain you for a period of time. However, if you are carrying a firearm in accordance with Federal and State law, you can not be criminally sanctioned for such on Indian land if you're a non-Indian. Many states grant tribal police State jurisdiction as peace officers that allow them to charge non-Indians or Indians under state criminal law.
Try them. They have some type of granted jurisdiction over you.... In NM , AZ, and UT anyway.

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ScottDLS
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Re: Carrying on reservations

#6

Post by ScottDLS » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:35 am

WTR wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
WTR wrote:
apostate wrote:I follow State law. Tribal courts generally have jurisdiction over tribe members only.

WRONG. You go kill an Elk on tribal land and you will see who has jurisdiction..... Same for up holding order in a tribal building ( casino, restaurant ). Or if they may issue a ticket on a Federal highway running through the reservation. That being said I have had some type of firearm with me 100% of the time as I have travel through various reservation. I have stopped for fuel, use the RE or stop to buy a hunting license on many reservations...... Never had a problem.
Tribal Nations have no CRIMINAL authority over non-Indians (actually non-tribe members). This is long standing SCOTUS interpretation of Federal law. They have considerable civil jurisdiction though, perhaps to include seizing your firearm, vehicle, and perhaps even to detain you for a period of time. However, if you are carrying a firearm in accordance with Federal and State law, you can not be criminally sanctioned for such on Indian land if you're a non-Indian. Many states grant tribal police State jurisdiction as peace officers that allow them to charge non-Indians or Indians under state criminal law.

Try them. They have some type of granted jurisdiction over you.... In NM , AZ, and UT anyway.
Yes, State jurisdiction, as I said. If you are carrying IAW state and federal law they cannot charge you with a crime. Hear of any non-Indians in tribal jail?
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


montgomery
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Re: Carrying on reservations

#7

Post by montgomery » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:04 am

ScottDLS wrote:
WTR wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
WTR wrote:
apostate wrote:I follow State law. Tribal courts generally have jurisdiction over tribe members only.

WRONG. You go kill an Elk on tribal land and you will see who has jurisdiction..... Same for up holding order in a tribal building ( casino, restaurant ). Or if they may issue a ticket on a Federal highway running through the reservation. That being said I have had some type of firearm with me 100% of the time as I have travel through various reservation. I have stopped for fuel, use the RE or stop to buy a hunting license on many reservations...... Never had a problem.
Tribal Nations have no CRIMINAL authority over non-Indians (actually non-tribe members). This is long standing SCOTUS interpretation of Federal law. They have considerable civil jurisdiction though, perhaps to include seizing your firearm, vehicle, and perhaps even to detain you for a period of time. However, if you are carrying a firearm in accordance with Federal and State law, you can not be criminally sanctioned for such on Indian land if you're a non-Indian. Many states grant tribal police State jurisdiction as peace officers that allow them to charge non-Indians or Indians under state criminal law.

Try them. They have some type of granted jurisdiction over you.... In NM , AZ, and UT anyway.
Yes, State jurisdiction, as I said. If you are carrying IAW state and federal law they cannot charge you with a crime. Hear of any non-Indians in tribal jail?
You don't hear of non-Indians in tribal jail for a reason. Given a choice between that and a Mexican jail, I choose Mexican jail.


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Re: Carrying on reservations

#8

Post by BBYC » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:47 pm

WTR: When was Oliphant v. Suquamish overturned? I missed that. :confused5
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Re: Carrying on reservations

#9

Post by WTR » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:55 pm

BBYC wrote:WTR: When was Oliphant v. Suquamish overturned? I missed that. :confused5
They may not be able to Put you in prison but they sure will detain you. I have personally seen people detained and forfit their vehicles due to illegal hunting on tribal land, could be the State or the Feds have the final say, but don't think for a second that the tribal police won't throw you in cuffs.

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DEB
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Re: Carrying on reservations

#10

Post by DEB » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:00 pm

I have family in both NM and AZ, Tribal police are no joke. What I do is call each of the tribal authorities prior to my travel and get their signed take on what I can and can not do. Each Tribe is different on how they treat Concealed Carry, but I have never had one deny me to carry as long as I understood to remain on the main highway. I don't know anything about a Supreme Court ruling, as I do not want to go through the hassle of being detained or whatever one wants to call one's inability to move around. Lawyers cost more than guns and ammo, so I try to stay clear of them as well. So, I just call and then email each tribe point of contact and observe their restrictions.
Unless we keep the barbarian virtues, gaining the civilized ones will be of little avail. Oversentimentality, oversoftness, washiness, and mushiness are the great dangers of this age and of this people." Teddy Roosevelt"
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Re: Carrying on reservations

#11

Post by BBYC » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:10 pm

If you want to bash cops instead of discussing the law, both legislative and case law, count me out. :tiphat:
God, grant me serenity to accept the things I can't change
Courage to change the things I can
And the firepower to make a difference.


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Re: Carrying on reservations

#12

Post by WTR » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:22 pm

BBYC wrote:If you want to bash cops instead of discussing the law, both legislative and case law, count me out. :tiphat:

Who is bashing the Police?

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DEB
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Re: Carrying on reservations

#13

Post by DEB » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:23 pm

BBYC wrote:If you want to bash cops instead of discussing the law, both legislative and case law, count me out. :tiphat:
Who bashed Cops? I didn't see that anywhere.
Unless we keep the barbarian virtues, gaining the civilized ones will be of little avail. Oversentimentality, oversoftness, washiness, and mushiness are the great dangers of this age and of this people." Teddy Roosevelt"
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thatguyoverthere
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Re: Carrying on reservations

#14

Post by thatguyoverthere » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:24 pm

It's difficult to make a blanket statement of how it would be handled since there are many different reservations in many states and each tribe is independent of the other.

The website http://handgunlaw.us/# has some good resources on multiple Indian Nations in multiple states (look under "Indian Nations" in the top banner on the website home page).

Here's part of the opinion of the editorial staff at Handgunlaw.us (and note this is just their opinion - no better or worse than the opinion of anyone else posting here in this thread):
Tribal Law only applies to those who live on the Reservation. If you are carrying a firearm with a permit/license that is valid in the state the reservation is located in that permit/license may not be valid on the Reservation. They will most likely take the firearm and tell you that you can go to Tribal Court to get it back. Some say as long as you stay on the state roads through a Reservation you are OK but some Tribes ordinances state you can’t carry a firearm in a vehicle or on the roads on their Reservation.

Handgunlaw.us recommends before carrying on any Reservation that you actually talk to those in charge and preferably get something in writing that your permit/license is valid on their reservation. Otherwise keep it unloaded and secured in your trunk or locked box in the back of a vehicle that does not have a trunk.
Right or wrong, I've just referenced them as another source for you to consider. Take it for what it's worth. :tiphat:

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ScottDLS
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Re: Carrying on reservations

#15

Post by ScottDLS » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:30 pm

WTR wrote:
BBYC wrote:WTR: When was Oliphant v. Suquamish overturned? I missed that. :confused5
They may not be able to Put you in prison but they sure will detain you. I have personally seen people detained and forfit their vehicles due to illegal hunting on tribal land, could be the State or the Feds have the final say, but don't think for a second that the tribal police won't throw you in cuffs.

As I stated they have significant civil power, though a permanent seizure of property or indefinite detention would definitely be subject to challenge in Federal court. In essence tribal courts ARE federal courts with criminal jurisdiction of tribe members (and reservation residents to some extent). But, Tribal officials' power over non-Indians comes from Federal statute. If you aren't breaking a federal or state criminal law, you are not subject to criminal prosecution.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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