Bar with no 51% sign

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

User avatar

ScottDLS
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:04 am
Location: DFW Area, TX

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#16

Post by ScottDLS » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:30 pm

Abraham wrote:I just don't care about 51% signs.

It's easy enough to tell if it's just a bar.

Sheesh....

Is it? In this case it appears that it was a non-prohibited distillery allowed to sell on premises....
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


Abraham
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 7829
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:43 am

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#17

Post by Abraham » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:52 pm

tomato-tahmahto who cares....?

It's just not important because if I'm carrying, I'm not going to drink booze. I won't quibble about how much is or isn't ok...

Why not?

Carry is more important than drinking.

You care to drink?

No problem.

Do it at home.

Good insurance.

User avatar

Allons
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 511
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:03 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#18

Post by Allons » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:00 pm

Abraham wrote:tomato-tahmahto who cares....?

It's just not important because if I'm carrying, I'm not going to drink booze. I won't quibble about how much is or isn't ok...

Why not?

Carry is more important than drinking.

You care to drink?

No problem.

Do it at home.

Good insurance.
:iagree:
EDC'S: Dan Wesson CCO, CZ-P01, CZ-P10C, CZ-P07
NRA Member
US Army 1988-1999
Image

User avatar

ScottDLS
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:04 am
Location: DFW Area, TX

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#19

Post by ScottDLS » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:10 pm

Abraham wrote:tomato-tahmahto who cares....?

It's just not important because if I'm carrying, I'm not going to drink booze. I won't quibble about how much is or isn't ok...

Why not?

Carry is more important than drinking.

You care to drink?

No problem.

Do it at home.

Good insurance.
No if I care to drink (which I haven't in several years), I also prefer not give up my right to defend myself. It is simply legally required that I not become intoxicated if I am carrying under LTC or driving.

Why would drinking in my home, with all the weapons there be any better than drinking in a bar or restaurant?



"I don't often drink beer, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis....and carry a .380." <-----The most interesting man in the (Forum). :smilelol5:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


rotor
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 2787
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:26 pm

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#20

Post by rotor » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:32 pm

Abraham wrote:tomato-tahmahto who cares....?

It's just not important because if I'm carrying, I'm not going to drink booze. I won't quibble about how much is or isn't ok...

Why not?

Carry is more important than drinking.

You care to drink?

No problem.

Do it at home.

Good insurance.
It is not really a question of whether you drink (I don't drink at all), it is a question of whether you can legally enter while carrying. For me that issue comes with restaurants that also serve alcohol.


Abraham
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 7829
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:43 am

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#21

Post by Abraham » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:12 pm

rotor,

While I'm in the autumn of my years, read geezer, I can tell if it's a restaurant that sells more food than booze or a bar.

Honestly, this is a problem for you?

Such a deal....said in my best Jackie Mason voice.

Send in she who must before going in or someone else and have them ask if you're booze radar aint working right...

P.S. Getting into geezer years is embarrassing in more ways than getting up to pee 8 times a night, it's that your skin turns against you. It slowly begins to look like crepe paper. Wonderful....oh well, being dead will cure it after looking like some Star Trek reptile for a few years first.


rotor
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 2787
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:26 pm

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#22

Post by rotor » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:39 pm

Abraham wrote:rotor,

While I'm in the autumn of my years, read geezer, I can tell if it's a restaurant that sells more food than booze or a bar.

Honestly, this is a problem for you?

Such a deal....said in my best Jackie Mason voice.

Send in she who must before going in or someone else and have them ask if you're booze radar aint working right...

P.S. Getting into geezer years is embarrassing in more ways than getting up to pee 8 times a night, it's that your skin turns against you. It slowly begins to look like crepe paper. Wonderful....oh well, being dead will cure it after looking like some Star Trek reptile for a few years first.
Don't know what the definition of geezer is but I am 75. Perhaps I qualify. When you go into a restaurant that also has a bar you need to know. Our local Elks serves food once a week but is 51% marked. Who would of thought? Chilis serves food and has a bar. Not 51% though. The problem of course is that violation is a felony. And I really can't tell by looking which place is legal or not. I don't drink so I don't go to bars but I do eat and many restaurants serve alcohol so the signs are important.

User avatar

Vol Texan
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1775
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:18 am
Location: Houston
Contact:

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#23

Post by Vol Texan » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:50 pm

Abraham wrote:
While I'm in the autumn of my years, read geezer, I can tell if it's a restaurant that sells more food than booze or a bar.

Honestly, this is a problem for you?
So you walk into the Smart Financial Center in Sugar Land. This is clearly a concert venue and not a bar. Certainly they make more from ticket sales than from alcohol.

You get lucky tonight, because they don’t have the metal detectors up and running, and you carry concealed.

Who cares to look for a sign? I can tell a bar when I see one...

Except that particular establishment has a single vendor inside for all alcohol sales. That vendor sells more alcohol than anything else. Dumb as it sounds, the entire concert venue is a 51% location because of this one vendor.

That’s why I check my TABC app anytime I go somewhere new.
Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
When those fail, aim for center mass.

www.HoustonLTC.com: Texas LTC Instructor & NRA Pistol Instructor | www.Texas3006.com Moderator | Armored Cav. | Tennessee Squire


Rubicon
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:44 am

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#24

Post by Rubicon » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:19 pm

You care to drink?

No problem.

Do it at home.

And stay off the internet.
the die is cast

User avatar

oohrah
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 947
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: McLennan County

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#25

Post by oohrah » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:47 pm

One thing not mentioned. If the place is licensed 51% and you carry, you are in violation whether they have posted or not. You are responsible for knowing. (I would think defense to prosecution if they weren't posted.)

Conversely, if they are posted 51% and they are not that license, you can carry.
USMC, Retired
Treating one variety of person as better or worse than others by accident of birth is morally indefensible.

User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 11967
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#26

Post by C-dub » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:57 pm

oohrah wrote:One thing not mentioned. If the place is licensed 51% and you carry, you are in violation whether they have posted or not.
Yes and no. If they are not posted, but should be, it has been a defense to prosecution for a little while now.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.

NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member

User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 11967
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#27

Post by C-dub » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:59 pm

Abraham wrote:I just don't care about 51% signs.

It's easy enough to tell if it's just a bar.

Sheesh....
One would think it would be easy. However, remember back when it was easy to tell if an amusement park was an amusement park?
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.

NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member

User avatar

Keith B
Moderator
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 17897
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#28

Post by Keith B » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:03 pm

Abraham wrote:tomato-tahmahto who cares....?

It's just not important because if I'm carrying, I'm not going to drink booze. I won't quibble about how much is or isn't ok...

Why not?

Carry is more important than drinking.

You care to drink?

No problem.

Do it at home.

Good insurance.
You're missing the point. Doesn't matter if you are drinking or not, if you carry into a 51% establishment, then you are illegal. Sign or not, it is prohibited. The only out you might get is a defense to prosecution if they don't have a sign or have the BLUE sign and should have the RED.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4


O.F.Fascist
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:04 am
Location: Corpus Christi, TX, United States of America

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#29

Post by O.F.Fascist » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:14 am

Grundy1133 wrote:So I visited this establishment with my girlfriend. As we approached I saw their blue "Unlicensed possession" sign. After we entered I noticed there were no food sales. it was essentially a bar or a pub. all they had was different ales and hard liquors. I never planned on coming back to this place anyway so I asked the guy behind the counter if this was a 51% establishment. he replied with Yes it is. So I asked Where's your 51% sign? He just kinda looked at me and said "Well... We don't have one." I said oh. ok. then he asked "Well you're not open carrying are you?" (I was concealed carrying but i didn't wanna volunteer that info) so i just said "No I'm not open carrying." after that, we left. Now my question would be, couldn't they get into a LOT of trouble for not having a 51% sign when in fact 51% of their sales comes from alcohol that's consumed on the property? And should I notify TABC that they don't have a 51% sign displayed?
Don't report them. Bars are supposed to post 51% signs but it is not your obligation to inform them or to inform the government.

If you find a bar that isn't posted 51% it is a defense to prosecution if you are caught carrying there.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm
Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
...
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder's person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(k) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... tm#411.204
Sec. 411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES. (a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
...

User avatar

ScottDLS
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:04 am
Location: DFW Area, TX

Re: Bar with no 51% sign

#30

Post by ScottDLS » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:34 am

Keith B wrote:
Abraham wrote:tomato-tahmahto who cares....?

It's just not important because if I'm carrying, I'm not going to drink booze. I won't quibble about how much is or isn't ok...

Why not?

Carry is more important than drinking.

You care to drink?

No problem.

Do it at home.

Good insurance.
You're missing the point. Doesn't matter if you are drinking or not, if you carry into a 51% establishment, then you are illegal. Sign or not, it is prohibited. The only out you might get is a defense to prosecution if they don't have a sign or have the BLUE sign and should have the RED.
If they don’t have a sign it’s a defense to prosecution, just like carrying a handgun with your LTC...If you wouldn’t do one, you shouldn’t do the other. :rules:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

Post Reply

Return to “General Texas CHL Discussion”