Liberty County Building - Posted

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton


Papa_Tiger
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 9:55 am

Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#46

Post by Papa_Tiger »

WildRose wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:42 pm Logically there is zero possibility that allowing carry there will not result eventually in the unlawful use of those firearms.
Ok, for the sake of intellectual consistency, let's take this train of thought to it's logical conclusion, and no, this is not reductio ad absurdum.

Logically, there is zero possibility that allowing carry in ____________ will not result eventually in the unlawful use of those firearms. A civilian should not be allowed to carry a firearm in ___________ because of the non zero possibility that eventually there will be unlawful use of those firearms.

Fill in the blanks with any place were licensed carry is currently legal.

Do you see where your very own logic takes you?

Or are you so concerned about mitigating potential miniscule risk that you would give up God given rights and freedoms to do so?

Topic author
chasfm11
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 4136
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:01 pm
Location: Northern DFW

Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#47

Post by chasfm11 »

WildRose wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:42 pm
Now make a logical case that allowing carry in court will not have any effect on the judicial process, that judges, witnesses, prosecutors, jurors would not let that knowledge intimidate them in any way or that there's no possibility someone will lose it shooting up the courtroom?

Physical attacks already occur in courtrooms all across the country with some regularity due to people coming emotionally unglued or in an attempt at intimidation or retribution.

Logically there is zero possibility that allowing carry there will not result eventually in the unlawful use of those firearms.

Unless you are there as a result of being called, subpoenaed, charged, etch or work there entry into the courts is strictly a voluntary act and by doing so you submit yourself to the rules of the court. You have no "basic human right" to be armed in a courtroom period nor can you cite anything in US law of our constitution which supports such a claim.
Let's separate things a bit.

First, the thread was about the expansion of gun carrying prohibitions in the court room to whole buildings that were mostly not courts. In the case of Denton Precinct 3 building, there a physical separation of floors. The court functions are on the second floor.

Your point that physical attacks already occur in court rooms is valid. But the follow up question is: by whom? By the defendants and the families of the defendants? How many of them are eligible to have an LTC? I suggest that those who are eligible are not the types of people who do that sort of thing - or the 20 plus of history about LTC/CHL holders would look vastly different than it does

I would submit that there is probably no more volatile place in Texas than the Texas legislature. Emotions run high and there are constant demonstrations around the buildings. Tempers regularly flair Yet LTC holders are given access armed and there have been no incidents that I'm aware of. That isn't surprising to me. So, lets call that a "zero possibility" that remains at zero.

I maintain that someone bent on murdering a DA, a Judge or anyone else in the court would have little difficulty in finding them outside the court environment. That does happen. I don't buy into the "heat of the moment" or what I prefer to call "situational schizophrenia" reason for someone shooting a a court room. But I'm not advocating the carrying of guns in the actual courtrooms. I am advocating not over-dramatizing the existing of a court room to include all of the surrounding geography.
6/23-8/13/10 -51 days to plastic
Dum Spiro, Spero

WildRose
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 14
Posts: 542
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:30 am

Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#48

Post by WildRose »

chasfm11 wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:28 pm
WildRose wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:42 pm
Now make a logical case that allowing carry in court will not have any effect on the judicial process, that judges, witnesses, prosecutors, jurors would not let that knowledge intimidate them in any way or that there's no possibility someone will lose it shooting up the courtroom?

Physical attacks already occur in courtrooms all across the country with some regularity due to people coming emotionally unglued or in an attempt at intimidation or retribution.

Logically there is zero possibility that allowing carry there will not result eventually in the unlawful use of those firearms.

Unless you are there as a result of being called, subpoenaed, charged, etch or work there entry into the courts is strictly a voluntary act and by doing so you submit yourself to the rules of the court. You have no "basic human right" to be armed in a courtroom period nor can you cite anything in US law of our constitution which supports such a claim.
Let's separate things a bit.

First, the thread was about the expansion of gun carrying prohibitions in the court room to whole buildings that were mostly not courts. In the case of Denton Precinct 3 building, there a physical separation of floors. The court functions are on the second floor.

Your point that physical attacks already occur in court rooms is valid. But the follow up question is: by whom? By the defendants and the families of the defendants? How many of them are eligible to have an LTC? I suggest that those who are eligible are not the types of people who do that sort of thing - or the 20 plus of history about LTC/CHL holders would look vastly different than it does

I would submit that there is probably no more volatile place in Texas than the Texas legislature. Emotions run high and there are constant demonstrations around the buildings. Tempers regularly flair Yet LTC holders are given access armed and there have been no incidents that I'm aware of. That isn't surprising to me. So, lets call that a "zero possibility" that remains at zero.

I maintain that someone bent on murdering a DA, a Judge or anyone else in the court would have little difficulty in finding them outside the court environment. That does happen. I don't buy into the "heat of the moment" or what I prefer to call "situational schizophrenia" reason for someone shooting a a court room. But I'm not advocating the carrying of guns in the actual courtrooms. I am advocating not over-dramatizing the existing of a court room to include all of the surrounding geography.
There is no factual basis for claiming that there is zero possibility. The possibility will always exist as long as licensed carry is allowed.

As for the rest, the frequency is irrelevant, it will only take one for he backlash to occur and when it does it will go far beyond the venue in which it occurs. That is the reactionary nature of politics and we see it after every high profile shooting no matter how nonsensical the "solutions" being offered are.

No one is disputing that the same individuals can be targeted outside of the courtroom, the difference is malice aforethought vs a crime of passion.

As for the original OP vs what's being discussed here, I am not responsible for the diversion, I responded to the suggestion that we need to change the law allowing anyone licensed to carry be allowed to carry anywhere an LEO is authorized.

To be clear I wholeheartedly agree with most of what you have proposed in the OP and subsequently.
NRA Life Member NRA Certified Instructor RSO, CRSO,
USCCA Certified Instructor
TX LTC licensed Instructor Personal/Family Protection and Self Defense Instructor.
Without The First and Second Amendments the rest are meaningless.
Post Reply

Return to “General Texas CHL Discussion”