Liberty County Building - Posted

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C-dub
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#16

Post by C-dub » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:18 pm

Blue Wave wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:29 pm
oljames3 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:18 pm
ScottDLS wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:23 am
GeekwithaGun wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:04 am
This should be something our state reps need to fix. The cost of litigation for the state and county trying to prohibit carry is ridiculous.

There should be no prohibition for a licensed person in any government building or office with the only exception (possibly) being a courtroom in session. Not the hallway outside the courtroom, not the entire building where there is a courtroom, not the clerks office, but the actual room while court is in session. I would be okay with that restriction.

My preference is that the lege amend the law to allow LTC holders to carry anywhere LEO can carry.
:iagree:
:iagree:
If you want to carry everywhere police can carry, go to the academy and make it happen.
Not at my age!
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.

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WildRose
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#17

Post by WildRose » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:49 pm

GeekwithaGun wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:04 am
This should be something our state reps need to fix. The cost of litigation for the state and county trying to prohibit carry is ridiculous.

There should be no prohibition for a licensed person in any government building or office with the only exception (possibly) being a courtroom in session. Not the hallway outside the courtroom, not the entire building where there is a courtroom, not the clerks office, but the actual room while court is in session. I would be okay with that restriction.

My preference is that the lege amend the law to allow LTC holders to carry anywhere LEO can carry.
You're never going to see that happen and if it did, it's pretty well a certainty that it would not be long before we had a shooting in a courtroom, probation office, or other locations that are restricted to LEO's only.

On top of that even if we managed not to which is at best doubtful we'd have an immediate heavy backlash from the state's LEO's and public employees, particularly court staff.

I'm about as pro gun rights as a man can be without being a complete nut on the subject but I'm afraid that's just pushing way too far and the results would hurt us all when the backlash hit.
NRA Certified Instructor, RSO, CRSO,
TX LTC Instructor, Personal/Family Protection and Self Defense Instructor.
Without The First and Second Amendments the rest are meaningless.


WildRose
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#18

Post by WildRose » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:50 pm

Blue Wave wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:29 pm
oljames3 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:18 pm
ScottDLS wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:23 am
GeekwithaGun wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:04 am
This should be something our state reps need to fix. The cost of litigation for the state and county trying to prohibit carry is ridiculous.

There should be no prohibition for a licensed person in any government building or office with the only exception (possibly) being a courtroom in session. Not the hallway outside the courtroom, not the entire building where there is a courtroom, not the clerks office, but the actual room while court is in session. I would be okay with that restriction.

My preference is that the lege amend the law to allow LTC holders to carry anywhere LEO can carry.
:iagree:
:iagree:
If you want to carry everywhere police can carry, go to the academy and make it happen.
That wouldn't solve anything. Unless you are hired by a dept you cannot be licensed and would not be allowed to carry in places reserved for LEO's.
NRA Certified Instructor, RSO, CRSO,
TX LTC Instructor, Personal/Family Protection and Self Defense Instructor.
Without The First and Second Amendments the rest are meaningless.

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ScottDLS
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#19

Post by ScottDLS » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:46 pm

Well Blue Wave got run outta town pretty quick.... :lol:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#20

Post by Jusme » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:59 am

WildRose wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:49 pm
GeekwithaGun wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:04 am
This should be something our state reps need to fix. The cost of litigation for the state and county trying to prohibit carry is ridiculous.

There should be no prohibition for a licensed person in any government building or office with the only exception (possibly) being a courtroom in session. Not the hallway outside the courtroom, not the entire building where there is a courtroom, not the clerks office, but the actual room while court is in session. I would be okay with that restriction.

My preference is that the lege amend the law to allow LTC holders to carry anywhere LEO can carry.
You're never going to see that happen and if it did, it's pretty well a certainty that it would not be long before we had a shooting in a courtroom, probation office, or other locations that are restricted to LEO's only.

On top of that even if we managed not to which is at best doubtful we'd have an immediate heavy backlash from the state's LEO's and public employees, particularly court staff.

I'm about as pro gun rights as a man can be without being a complete nut on the subject but I'm afraid that's just pushing way too far and the results would hurt us all when the backlash hit.


We had a bill before the Legislature last session, that would have done just that, It was never put before a committee, because of the former house speaker. He is gone now, and we are diligently working to get such a bill re-submitted, this session. The "constitutional carry" bill made more headway.
With school safety, being a front and center, issue, I have been contacting my reps, to inform them of how much safer schools would be, if LTC holders could carry there, as well as pointing out, that LEO, can carry in any courtroom, even off duty, and in cases, involving their own, divorces, and child custody.

There will always be backlash, from the left, any time, restrictions, on LTC holders, are reduced, but, we have had open carry passed, without incident, campus carry passed, without incident etc. So my question is, why do you think, that LTC holders would suddenly go on shooting rampages, in courtrooms, schools, etc?
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


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chasfm11
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#21

Post by chasfm11 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:47 am

Jusme wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:59 am

There will always be backlash, from the left, any time, restrictions, on LTC holders, are reduced, but, we have had open carry passed, without incident, campus carry passed, without incident etc. So my question is, why do you think, that LTC holders would suddenly go on shooting rampages, in courtrooms, schools, etc?
This has been a central point of many of my discussions with people about teachers carrying guns in schools. I've nicknamed it "situational schizophrenia" When I've chipped away at it, I've found that they really don't believe that the school environment poses any greater risk to LTC holder shooting the place up. It is that the schizophrenia could really kick in anywhere and they just don't want it to be in the schools. I've talked about the fact that many teachers have LTCs and carry in places where the teachers might meet their students like Wal-Mart without lethal results. As usual, there is complete denial of that as a current reality and the opponents switch back to "well it could happen and it would be terrible."

All of us are walking time bombs and all they are trying to do is limit the places that we might go off. Some places are just more sensitive to the denotation than others. I've gotten no traction at all with the notion that someone with lethal intentions could just wait for an opportunity outside of the courtroom to murder a judge or a prosecutor, as has actually happened in a few cases. The crazy thing is the idea that someone with those ideas would obey the laws on carrying a gun while disobeying the laws on murder is another concept that gets brushed aside. The possibility of a "heat of the moment" response trumps all of that. If you listen to the anti-guns within the medical establishment, they pretty much use the same line as a reason for posting medical facilities.
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BBYC
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#22

Post by BBYC » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:09 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:46 pm
Well Blue Wave got run outta town pretty quick.... :lol:
Quicker than a conservative on Twitter. :lol:
God, grant me serenity to accept the things I can't change
Courage to change the things I can
And the firepower to make a difference.


WildRose
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#23

Post by WildRose » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:57 pm

Jusme wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:59 am
WildRose wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:49 pm
GeekwithaGun wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:04 am
This should be something our state reps need to fix. The cost of litigation for the state and county trying to prohibit carry is ridiculous.

There should be no prohibition for a licensed person in any government building or office with the only exception (possibly) being a courtroom in session. Not the hallway outside the courtroom, not the entire building where there is a courtroom, not the clerks office, but the actual room while court is in session. I would be okay with that restriction.

My preference is that the lege amend the law to allow LTC holders to carry anywhere LEO can carry.
You're never going to see that happen and if it did, it's pretty well a certainty that it would not be long before we had a shooting in a courtroom, probation office, or other locations that are restricted to LEO's only.

On top of that even if we managed not to which is at best doubtful we'd have an immediate heavy backlash from the state's LEO's and public employees, particularly court staff.

I'm about as pro gun rights as a man can be without being a complete nut on the subject but I'm afraid that's just pushing way too far and the results would hurt us all when the backlash hit.


We had a bill before the Legislature last session, that would have done just that, It was never put before a committee, because of the former house speaker. He is gone now, and we are diligently working to get such a bill re-submitted, this session. The "constitutional carry" bill made more headway.
With school safety, being a front and center, issue, I have been contacting my reps, to inform them of how much safer schools would be, if LTC holders could carry there, as well as pointing out, that LEO, can carry in any courtroom, even off duty, and in cases, involving their own, divorces, and child custody.

There will always be backlash, from the left, any time, restrictions, on LTC holders, are reduced, but, we have had open carry passed, without incident, campus carry passed, without incident etc. So my question is, why do you think, that LTC holders would suddenly go on shooting rampages, in courtrooms, schools, etc?
At no point did I suggest we'd have such a rash of shootings. What I can foresee is that a single incident would eventually occur and when it did we'd be giving the anti's more than enough rope to start succeeding in reducing the freedom we have now.

I can also see massive resistance from rank and file LEO's over something like this instead of just the normal resistance we get from politically motivated chiefs.
NRA Certified Instructor, RSO, CRSO,
TX LTC Instructor, Personal/Family Protection and Self Defense Instructor.
Without The First and Second Amendments the rest are meaningless.


WildRose
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#24

Post by WildRose » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:04 pm

chasfm11 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:47 am
Jusme wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:59 am

There will always be backlash, from the left, any time, restrictions, on LTC holders, are reduced, but, we have had open carry passed, without incident, campus carry passed, without incident etc. So my question is, why do you think, that LTC holders would suddenly go on shooting rampages, in courtrooms, schools, etc?
This has been a central point of many of my discussions with people about teachers carrying guns in schools. I've nicknamed it "situational schizophrenia" When I've chipped away at it, I've found that they really don't believe that the school environment poses any greater risk to LTC holder shooting the place up. It is that the schizophrenia could really kick in anywhere and they just don't want it to be in the schools. I've talked about the fact that many teachers have LTCs and carry in places where the teachers might meet their students like Wal-Mart without lethal results. As usual, there is complete denial of that as a current reality and the opponents switch back to "well it could happen and it would be terrible."

All of us are walking time bombs and all they are trying to do is limit the places that we might go off. Some places are just more sensitive to the denotation than others. I've gotten no traction at all with the notion that someone with lethal intentions could just wait for an opportunity outside of the courtroom to murder a judge or a prosecutor, as has actually happened in a few cases. The crazy thing is the idea that someone with those ideas would obey the laws on carrying a gun while disobeying the laws on murder is another concept that gets brushed aside. The possibility of a "heat of the moment" response trumps all of that. If you listen to the anti-guns within the medical establishment, they pretty much use the same line as a reason for posting medical facilities.
Anyone who's spent much time in a courtroom or watched such things as court TV realizes that it's an incredibly high stress environment where it's not particularly uncommon for people to flat out loose it and occasionally launch attacks against the LEO's, perp's on trial or even judges.

I just can't see it ever being allowed and I think if it were it would end badly for us.
NRA Certified Instructor, RSO, CRSO,
TX LTC Instructor, Personal/Family Protection and Self Defense Instructor.
Without The First and Second Amendments the rest are meaningless.

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Jusme
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#25

Post by Jusme » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:22 am

WildRose wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:04 pm
chasfm11 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:47 am
Jusme wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:59 am

There will always be backlash, from the left, any time, restrictions, on LTC holders, are reduced, but, we have had open carry passed, without incident, campus carry passed, without incident etc. So my question is, why do you think, that LTC holders would suddenly go on shooting rampages, in courtrooms, schools, etc?
This has been a central point of many of my discussions with people about teachers carrying guns in schools. I've nicknamed it "situational schizophrenia" When I've chipped away at it, I've found that they really don't believe that the school environment poses any greater risk to LTC holder shooting the place up. It is that the schizophrenia could really kick in anywhere and they just don't want it to be in the schools. I've talked about the fact that many teachers have LTCs and carry in places where the teachers might meet their students like Wal-Mart without lethal results. As usual, there is complete denial of that as a current reality and the opponents switch back to "well it could happen and it would be terrible."

All of us are walking time bombs and all they are trying to do is limit the places that we might go off. Some places are just more sensitive to the denotation than others. I've gotten no traction at all with the notion that someone with lethal intentions could just wait for an opportunity outside of the courtroom to murder a judge or a prosecutor, as has actually happened in a few cases. The crazy thing is the idea that someone with those ideas would obey the laws on carrying a gun while disobeying the laws on murder is another concept that gets brushed aside. The possibility of a "heat of the moment" response trumps all of that. If you listen to the anti-guns within the medical establishment, they pretty much use the same line as a reason for posting medical facilities.
Anyone who's spent much time in a courtroom or watched such things as court TV realizes that it's an incredibly high stress environment where it's not particularly uncommon for people to flat out loose it and occasionally launch attacks against the LEO's, perp's on trial or even judges.

I just can't see it ever being allowed and I think if it were it would end badly for us.


My point is that LEO, are no different, than anyone else, yet, they are allowed to carry into any courtroom,, or schools, even off duty. They are subject to just as much stress, as anyone else, and they don't have the track record of being as law abiding, as LTC holders. LTC holders, have proven themselves, to be the "coolest heads in the room" in nearly all circumstances. The pushback for campus carry was tremendous, remember?
There was going to be massive numbers of professors killed, for their teaching methods, giving bad grades, etc. There was going to be shootouts between students, at drunken parties. None of that has happened.
Open carry was going to result, in blood running ankle deep in the streets, shootouts at high noon, people running for their lives, when they (gasp) saw someone carrying a gun. Again, nothing. People, who are going to shoot someone over a court case, are going to do it outside of a courtroom, where they have armed security. And no restrictions, will prevent it. LTC holders, have stepped up to the plate, to defend others when there are no LEO, around, LTC holders, with children, will be even better security in schools, than LEO as we have seen in recent events in Florida.

There are no guarantees, that an LTC holder, won't misuse, his/her gun. But history, is on our side. JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


WildRose
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#26

Post by WildRose » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:20 am

Jusme wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:22 am
WildRose wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:04 pm
chasfm11 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:47 am
Jusme wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:59 am

There will always be backlash, from the left, any time, restrictions, on LTC holders, are reduced, but, we have had open carry passed, without incident, campus carry passed, without incident etc. So my question is, why do you think, that LTC holders would suddenly go on shooting rampages, in courtrooms, schools, etc?
This has been a central point of many of my discussions with people about teachers carrying guns in schools. I've nicknamed it "situational schizophrenia" When I've chipped away at it, I've found that they really don't believe that the school environment poses any greater risk to LTC holder shooting the place up. It is that the schizophrenia could really kick in anywhere and they just don't want it to be in the schools. I've talked about the fact that many teachers have LTCs and carry in places where the teachers might meet their students like Wal-Mart without lethal results. As usual, there is complete denial of that as a current reality and the opponents switch back to "well it could happen and it would be terrible."

All of us are walking time bombs and all they are trying to do is limit the places that we might go off. Some places are just more sensitive to the denotation than others. I've gotten no traction at all with the notion that someone with lethal intentions could just wait for an opportunity outside of the courtroom to murder a judge or a prosecutor, as has actually happened in a few cases. The crazy thing is the idea that someone with those ideas would obey the laws on carrying a gun while disobeying the laws on murder is another concept that gets brushed aside. The possibility of a "heat of the moment" response trumps all of that. If you listen to the anti-guns within the medical establishment, they pretty much use the same line as a reason for posting medical facilities.
Anyone who's spent much time in a courtroom or watched such things as court TV realizes that it's an incredibly high stress environment where it's not particularly uncommon for people to flat out loose it and occasionally launch attacks against the LEO's, perp's on trial or even judges.

I just can't see it ever being allowed and I think if it were it would end badly for us.


My point is that LEO, are no different, than anyone else, yet, they are allowed to carry into any courtroom,, or schools, even off duty. They are subject to just as much stress, as anyone else, and they don't have the track record of being as law abiding, as LTC holders. LTC holders, have proven themselves, to be the "coolest heads in the room" in nearly all circumstances. The pushback for campus carry was tremendous, remember?
There was going to be massive numbers of professors killed, for their teaching methods, giving bad grades, etc. There was going to be shootouts between students, at drunken parties. None of that has happened.
Open carry was going to result, in blood running ankle deep in the streets, shootouts at high noon, people running for their lives, when they (gasp) saw someone carrying a gun. Again, nothing. People, who are going to shoot someone over a court case, are going to do it outside of a courtroom, where they have armed security. And no restrictions, will prevent it. LTC holders, have stepped up to the plate, to defend others when there are no LEO, around, LTC holders, with children, will be even better security in schools, than LEO as we have seen in recent events in Florida.

There are no guarantees, that an LTC holder, won't misuse, his/her gun. But history, is on our side. JMHO
Leo's are not the defendants, their families etc involved in the cases before the court. When they are, they too are disarmed.

History teaches us that given enough opportunity bad things will happen and should something like this pass, when the bad thing does happen the backlash will go far beyond the courtroom.
NRA Certified Instructor, RSO, CRSO,
TX LTC Instructor, Personal/Family Protection and Self Defense Instructor.
Without The First and Second Amendments the rest are meaningless.

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Jusme
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#27

Post by Jusme » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:38 pm

WildRose wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:20 am
Jusme wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:22 am
WildRose wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:04 pm
chasfm11 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:47 am
Jusme wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:59 am

There will always be backlash, from the left, any time, restrictions, on LTC holders, are reduced, but, we have had open carry passed, without incident, campus carry passed, without incident etc. So my question is, why do you think, that LTC holders would suddenly go on shooting rampages, in courtrooms, schools, etc?
This has been a central point of many of my discussions with people about teachers carrying guns in schools. I've nicknamed it "situational schizophrenia" When I've chipped away at it, I've found that they really don't believe that the school environment poses any greater risk to LTC holder shooting the place up. It is that the schizophrenia could really kick in anywhere and they just don't want it to be in the schools. I've talked about the fact that many teachers have LTCs and carry in places where the teachers might meet their students like Wal-Mart without lethal results. As usual, there is complete denial of that as a current reality and the opponents switch back to "well it could happen and it would be terrible."

All of us are walking time bombs and all they are trying to do is limit the places that we might go off. Some places are just more sensitive to the denotation than others. I've gotten no traction at all with the notion that someone with lethal intentions could just wait for an opportunity outside of the courtroom to murder a judge or a prosecutor, as has actually happened in a few cases. The crazy thing is the idea that someone with those ideas would obey the laws on carrying a gun while disobeying the laws on murder is another concept that gets brushed aside. The possibility of a "heat of the moment" response trumps all of that. If you listen to the anti-guns within the medical establishment, they pretty much use the same line as a reason for posting medical facilities.
Anyone who's spent much time in a courtroom or watched such things as court TV realizes that it's an incredibly high stress environment where it's not particularly uncommon for people to flat out loose it and occasionally launch attacks against the LEO's, perp's on trial or even judges.

I just can't see it ever being allowed and I think if it were it would end badly for us.


My point is that LEO, are no different, than anyone else, yet, they are allowed to carry into any courtroom,, or schools, even off duty. They are subject to just as much stress, as anyone else, and they don't have the track record of being as law abiding, as LTC holders. LTC holders, have proven themselves, to be the "coolest heads in the room" in nearly all circumstances. The pushback for campus carry was tremendous, remember?
There was going to be massive numbers of professors killed, for their teaching methods, giving bad grades, etc. There was going to be shootouts between students, at drunken parties. None of that has happened.
Open carry was going to result, in blood running ankle deep in the streets, shootouts at high noon, people running for their lives, when they (gasp) saw someone carrying a gun. Again, nothing. People, who are going to shoot someone over a court case, are going to do it outside of a courtroom, where they have armed security. And no restrictions, will prevent it. LTC holders, have stepped up to the plate, to defend others when there are no LEO, around, LTC holders, with children, will be even better security in schools, than LEO as we have seen in recent events in Florida.

There are no guarantees, that an LTC holder, won't misuse, his/her gun. But history, is on our side. JMHO
Leo's are not the defendants, their families etc involved in the cases before the court. When they are, they too are disarmed.

History teaches us that given enough opportunity bad things will happen and should something like this pass, when the bad thing does happen the backlash will go far beyond the courtroom.



LEO can carry in courtrooms, even off duty, in cases involving their own divorces, and child custody hearings. I know, because I did so, and I know of others who have done so. If an LTC holder, is a defendant, in a felony trial, his LTC is usually suspended, pending the outcome, so it's a moot point. Most LTC holders, will be going into courtrooms, as either witnesses, or jurors, not defendants, and if history has taught us anything, it's that LTC holders, are more law abiding, and less likely, to resort to violence, in almost any given circumstance.
There are no guarantees, in life, just like there is no guarantee, that a defendant didn't figure out a way, to get a gun past security, and suddenly aim it at the LTC holder testifying against him. Or the jurors, who just handed down a guilty verdict. Or that he is waiting outside, to ambush an LTC holder, who had to leave their gun in their vehicle, to enter a courtroom. All of these things have proven to be more likely, than an LTC holder erupting in violence.Why are judges allowed to carry in courtrooms? are their lives, more valuable that anyone else's?

The left has presented, no solid argument, against, LTC holders carrying where LEO are allowed. other than the ones you have put forward, relating to it only being a matter of time. Yet, time has moved along, for the last 20+ years, and none of the things the left claimed would happen, have happened. Preemptive prohibition, against the possibility,of something, is how we got laws prohibiting carry, in the first place. JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


sugar land dave.
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#28

Post by sugar land dave. » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:18 pm

In fear is a poor way to experience life. Hopeful, but prepared is better. Joyful and carefree is nice, but needs hopeful, but prepared folks.

LTC in Texas has proven itself lawful and trustworthy for over two decades. What more can we reasonably do to calm the fearful? Nothing. They are who they are.


WildRose
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#29

Post by WildRose » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:14 pm

Jusme wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:38 pm
WildRose wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:20 am
Jusme wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:22 am
WildRose wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:04 pm
chasfm11 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:47 am
Jusme wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:59 am

There will always be backlash, from the left, any time, restrictions, on LTC holders, are reduced, but, we have had open carry passed, without incident, campus carry passed, without incident etc. So my question is, why do you think, that LTC holders would suddenly go on shooting rampages, in courtrooms, schools, etc?
This has been a central point of many of my discussions with people about teachers carrying guns in schools. I've nicknamed it "situational schizophrenia" When I've chipped away at it, I've found that they really don't believe that the school environment poses any greater risk to LTC holder shooting the place up. It is that the schizophrenia could really kick in anywhere and they just don't want it to be in the schools. I've talked about the fact that many teachers have LTCs and carry in places where the teachers might meet their students like Wal-Mart without lethal results. As usual, there is complete denial of that as a current reality and the opponents switch back to "well it could happen and it would be terrible."

All of us are walking time bombs and all they are trying to do is limit the places that we might go off. Some places are just more sensitive to the denotation than others. I've gotten no traction at all with the notion that someone with lethal intentions could just wait for an opportunity outside of the courtroom to murder a judge or a prosecutor, as has actually happened in a few cases. The crazy thing is the idea that someone with those ideas would obey the laws on carrying a gun while disobeying the laws on murder is another concept that gets brushed aside. The possibility of a "heat of the moment" response trumps all of that. If you listen to the anti-guns within the medical establishment, they pretty much use the same line as a reason for posting medical facilities.
Anyone who's spent much time in a courtroom or watched such things as court TV realizes that it's an incredibly high stress environment where it's not particularly uncommon for people to flat out loose it and occasionally launch attacks against the LEO's, perp's on trial or even judges.

I just can't see it ever being allowed and I think if it were it would end badly for us.


My point is that LEO, are no different, than anyone else, yet, they are allowed to carry into any courtroom,, or schools, even off duty. They are subject to just as much stress, as anyone else, and they don't have the track record of being as law abiding, as LTC holders. LTC holders, have proven themselves, to be the "coolest heads in the room" in nearly all circumstances. The pushback for campus carry was tremendous, remember?
There was going to be massive numbers of professors killed, for their teaching methods, giving bad grades, etc. There was going to be shootouts between students, at drunken parties. None of that has happened.
Open carry was going to result, in blood running ankle deep in the streets, shootouts at high noon, people running for their lives, when they (gasp) saw someone carrying a gun. Again, nothing. People, who are going to shoot someone over a court case, are going to do it outside of a courtroom, where they have armed security. And no restrictions, will prevent it. LTC holders, have stepped up to the plate, to defend others when there are no LEO, around, LTC holders, with children, will be even better security in schools, than LEO as we have seen in recent events in Florida.

There are no guarantees, that an LTC holder, won't misuse, his/her gun. But history, is on our side. JMHO
Leo's are not the defendants, their families etc involved in the cases before the court. When they are, they too are disarmed.

History teaches us that given enough opportunity bad things will happen and should something like this pass, when the bad thing does happen the backlash will go far beyond the courtroom.



LEO can carry in courtrooms, even off duty, in cases involving their own divorces, and child custody hearings. I know, because I did so, and I know of others who have done so. If an LTC holder, is a defendant, in a felony trial, his LTC is usually suspended, pending the outcome, so it's a moot point. Most LTC holders, will be going into courtrooms, as either witnesses, or jurors, not defendants, and if history has taught us anything, it's that LTC holders, are more law abiding, and less likely, to resort to violence, in almost any given circumstance.
There are no guarantees, in life, just like there is no guarantee, that a defendant didn't figure out a way, to get a gun past security, and suddenly aim it at the LTC holder testifying against him. Or the jurors, who just handed down a guilty verdict. Or that he is waiting outside, to ambush an LTC holder, who had to leave their gun in their vehicle, to enter a courtroom. All of these things have proven to be more likely, than an LTC holder erupting in violence.Why are judges allowed to carry in courtrooms? are their lives, more valuable that anyone else's?

The left has presented, no solid argument, against, LTC holders carrying where LEO are allowed. other than the ones you have put forward, relating to it only being a matter of time. Yet, time has moved along, for the last 20+ years, and none of the things the left claimed would happen, have happened. Preemptive prohibition, against the possibility,of something, is how we got laws prohibiting carry, in the first place. JMHO
That simply isn't true. While there has been no widespread outbreak of unlawful shootings by those legally carrying they have occurred.

All it would take is one taking place in a courtroom or other currently restricted place for the backlash to hit us hard and extend far beyond the location where it happens.

It's just a bad idea and nothing good would come of it if such a thing were to pass.

That's just one step beyond what I can advocate for.

Most other locations such as schools, the PO etc no problem at all, we shouldn't have to give up our rights simply to enter a gov't building.

With the new laws in place for a few years if we continue on the same track I think we'll be able to make more headway but there will always be certain places that it's just a bad idea such as rehab centers, mental health facilities, and courtrooms.
NRA Certified Instructor, RSO, CRSO,
TX LTC Instructor, Personal/Family Protection and Self Defense Instructor.
Without The First and Second Amendments the rest are meaningless.


Papa_Tiger
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Re: Liberty County Building - Posted

#30

Post by Papa_Tiger » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:35 am

WildRose wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:14 pm
That simply isn't true. While there has been no widespread outbreak of unlawful shootings by those legally carrying they have occurred.

All it would take is one taking place in a courtroom or other currently restricted place for the backlash to hit us hard and extend far beyond the location where it happens.

It's just a bad idea and nothing good would come of it if such a thing were to pass.

That's just one step beyond what I can advocate for.

Most other locations such as schools, the PO etc no problem at all, we shouldn't have to give up our rights simply to enter a gov't building.

With the new laws in place for a few years if we continue on the same track I think we'll be able to make more headway but there will always be certain places that it's just a bad idea such as rehab centers, mental health facilities, and courtrooms.
What is so special about a courtroom (or any other place for that matter) that it suddenly transforms one of the most law abiding members of society into a raving lunatic who will shoot any and everyone on a whim? (Yes I know that is hyperbole...)

Serious question here: What is it about the threshold of a courtroom that turns level headed men and women into murderers?

If we can't be trusted to carry in a courtroom, how can we be trusted to carry anywhere?
If we can be trusted to carry just about anywhere else, why can't we be trusted to carry in a courtroom?

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