Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

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WildRose
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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#31

Post by WildRose » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:48 pm

proudpirate wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:30 pm
This is the addendum the office used. They check marked Option 1 and Option 2 on the addendum. What do y'all think?
The way I read it, it is not legal notice and unless they post proper 06-07 signs on the property they would have no cause of action.

It isn't worth the paper it's written on.

About the only way they could post you as written is if you were caught carrying in a common area like the laundry room or office.

If you stop at your neighbor's home en route to or from your vehicle they would have no cause of action because it doesn't express specifically "directly to or from".

If if were me and you are concerned I'd just keep it concealed. At worst you're looking at a 200.00 violation that has no more bearing on your record than a traffic ticket.
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WildRose
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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#32

Post by WildRose » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:52 pm

TomS wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:56 pm
If I lived in an apartment, I’d be worried about what the knucklehead with a gun is doing on the other side of my apartment wall, ceiling or floor is doing not the public spaces.
This.... .
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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#33

Post by BBYC » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:06 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:04 pm
As noted above, VESP's are exempted, you are also possibly exempted unless it can be proven that you were not going between your apartment and your vehicle, etc. Worst case, you are looking at a potential $200 fine.
Maybe exempt from the fine but not exempt from eviction.
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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#34

Post by WildRose » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:48 pm

BBYC wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:06 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:04 pm
As noted above, VESP's are exempted, you are also possibly exempted unless it can be proven that you were not going between your apartment and your vehicle, etc. Worst case, you are looking at a potential $200 fine.
Maybe exempt from the fine but not exempt from eviction.
I don't think they'd likely be successful in an eviction case here. There's no legal grounds for it. It would be up to the landlord to put such stipulations in the contract and then prove you broke the contract and that's only going to fly if the judge does not accept that since it's your legal domicile your rights to keep and bear is not intact.
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mojo84
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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#35

Post by mojo84 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:02 pm

WildRose wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:48 pm
BBYC wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:06 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:04 pm
As noted above, VESP's are exempted, you are also possibly exempted unless it can be proven that you were not going between your apartment and your vehicle, etc. Worst case, you are looking at a potential $200 fine.
Maybe exempt from the fine but not exempt from eviction.
I don't think they'd likely be successful in an eviction case here. There's no legal grounds for it. It would be up to the landlord to put such stipulations in the contract and then prove you broke the contract and that's only going to fly if the judge does not accept that since it's your legal domicile your rights to keep and bear is not intact.
The legal grounds would be breach of the lease agreement which is breach of contract. The common areas and office are not part of his domicile. If he agrees to something in his contract, such as not carrying in the common areas or office, I doubt the judge would not hold him to the lease he agreed to.


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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#36

Post by WildRose » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:42 pm

mojo84 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:02 pm
WildRose wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:48 pm
BBYC wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:06 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:04 pm
As noted above, VESP's are exempted, you are also possibly exempted unless it can be proven that you were not going between your apartment and your vehicle, etc. Worst case, you are looking at a potential $200 fine.
Maybe exempt from the fine but not exempt from eviction.
I don't think they'd likely be successful in an eviction case here. There's no legal grounds for it. It would be up to the landlord to put such stipulations in the contract and then prove you broke the contract and that's only going to fly if the judge does not accept that since it's your legal domicile your rights to keep and bear is not intact.
The legal grounds would be breach of the lease agreement which is breach of contract. The common areas and office are not part of his domicile. If he agrees to something in his contract, such as not carrying in the common areas or office, I doubt the judge would not hold him to the lease he agreed to.
true but unless the wording is such that he can only lawfully carry directly along the shortest path to and from his apartment and car they would have to prove first that he was not en route too or from.

"I had to stop by the office for a minute as I headed out to work".

"I had to stop and speak to Jim, Mary and Todd on the way".

Now if you got caught hanging out at the pool or laundry room then he'd be in trouble.

I'd say keep it concealed, use common sense and don't make it an issue and there's little likelihood of it ever becoming one.
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Without The First and Second Amendments the rest are meaningless.


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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#37

Post by BBYC » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:38 pm

WildRose wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:42 pm
mojo84 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:02 pm
WildRose wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:48 pm
BBYC wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:06 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:04 pm
As noted above, VESP's are exempted, you are also possibly exempted unless it can be proven that you were not going between your apartment and your vehicle, etc. Worst case, you are looking at a potential $200 fine.
Maybe exempt from the fine but not exempt from eviction.
I don't think they'd likely be successful in an eviction case here. There's no legal grounds for it. It would be up to the landlord to put such stipulations in the contract and then prove you broke the contract and that's only going to fly if the judge does not accept that since it's your legal domicile your rights to keep and bear is not intact.
The legal grounds would be breach of the lease agreement which is breach of contract. The common areas and office are not part of his domicile. If he agrees to something in his contract, such as not carrying in the common areas or office, I doubt the judge would not hold him to the lease he agreed to.
true but unless the wording is such that he can only lawfully carry directly along the shortest path to and from his apartment and car they would have to prove first that he was not en route too or from.

"I had to stop by the office for a minute as I headed out to work".

"I had to stop and speak to Jim, Mary and Todd on the way".

Now if you got caught hanging out at the pool or laundry room then he'd be in trouble.

I'd say keep it concealed, use common sense and don't make it an issue and there's little likelihood of it ever becoming one.
VESP would be irrelevant in all those cases, which was my point,.
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Courage to change the things I can
And the firepower to make a difference.


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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#38

Post by Abraham » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:47 pm

How many here are attorneys?

Any, other than Charles? I'm sure there must be a few, especially on this thread.

Maybe with all the legal opinions offered are attorneys, but may they're the dreaded 'sidewalk and/or jailhouse lawyers'...who're famed for their accurate legal opinions.

If, you are an attorney and offer legal opinions, great, but if you're simply espousing opinions, please, qualify as some of us find it laughable to read if you don't post, 'my opinion' but state things like you really know...


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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#39

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:54 pm

We're conflating 2 different issues here.

One issue is what specific circumstances would breach the relevant provisions of this contract between the OP and his landlord. If the landlord claimed a breach, they would have to argue their case in court. I agree that VESP would likely not help much here, neither would the LEOSA for that matter just in case any of the complex residents happen to be LEO's. We also have not seen the contractual remedies for potential breach, etc. None of this is a criminal matter.

The second issue is whether this contractual wording constitutes notice under the provisions of section 30.06 or 30.07. That is a potential criminal matter, and things such as the exact wording, and whether the VESP or LEOSA exemptions apply would matter there. Personally, I don't think the wording matches, because I don't think you can take one part of the wording alone from the rest of it. But if a court disagreed with me, there would be other things to consider like whether the OP is a VESP, etc., before deciding on a potential penalty that could be as high as a $200 fine.

To be clear IANAL
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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Adden

#40

Post by ScottDLS » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:45 pm

Abraham wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:47 pm
How many here are attorneys?

Any, other than Charles? I'm sure there must be a few, especially on this thread.

Maybe with all the legal opinions offered are attorneys, but may they're the dreaded 'sidewalk and/or jailhouse lawyers'...who're famed for their accurate legal opinions.

If, you are an attorney and offer legal opinions, great, but if you're simply espousing opinions, please, qualify as some of us find it laughable to read if you don't post, 'my opinion' but state things like you really know...
What type of attorney? Criminal Defense, State Prosecutor, Real Estate? Civil trial lawyer? Insurance company lawyer, securities counsel, slip and fall, DUI specialists, Social Security Disability? Maybe a Constitutional Law Professor like Barack Obama could offer a definitive answer. Everyone without a current Texas bar card or temporary admittance by the State Supreme Court to practice law in Texas, must post IANAL at the bottom of their post or they are not allowed to comment? Or IANALLTPITX...I am not a lawyer licensed to practice in Texas. Or I have a JD but never passed the Bar. Or I am a law professor but haven’t kept my bar card up because it’s too expensive.

End of sarcastic rant . :evil2:

I suspect you could ask two very qualified Texas attorneys some of the same questions that come up in the Forum and get the opposite answers. Or ask Ken Paxton and the Travis County DA if a zoo is a school and get the opposite answers.

I am a landlord in Texas with several active leased properties in Denton and Tarrant County. When I discuss similar issues with my RE attorney (who likes guns by the way), he often says research it yourself and then if you still feel the cost of professional advice is worth the dollar risk that you are taking, pay me and I’ll write you an opinion which I will defend in court (for a fee). :rules:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#41

Post by K.Mooneyham » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:13 pm

Okay, I'm going to ask a combined question, and then belabor what should be the obvious thing. Is the entirety of the complex fenced in, and is it posted with properly sized and worded 30.06 and 30.07 signs? If it is not, then the only people being stopped from legally carrying are tenants. IF the complex is fenced and posted properly, that still doesn't keep out anyone who simply decides to break the law. People who put that stuff into rental agreements are either 100% ignorant, or refuse to face reality, or are making a political statement. In any case, as much hassle as it may be, I'd be looking for another place to live.

BTW, I am not starting a debate on property vs premises, or anything else of the sort.


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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#42

Post by WildRose » Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:02 pm

K.Mooneyham wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:13 pm
Okay, I'm going to ask a combined question, and then belabor what should be the obvious thing. Is the entirety of the complex fenced in, and is it posted with properly sized and worded 30.06 and 30.07 signs? If it is not, then the only people being stopped from legally carrying are tenants. IF the complex is fenced and posted properly, that still doesn't keep out anyone who simply decides to break the law. People who put that stuff into rental agreements are either 100% ignorant, or refuse to face reality, or are making a political statement. In any case, as much hassle as it may be, I'd be looking for another place to live.

BTW, I am not starting a debate on property vs premises, or anything else of the sort.
Mostly they are doing it purely as a liability waiver, secondarily in cases where the powers that be are anti gun.
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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#43

Post by spectre » Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:18 pm

Abraham wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:47 pm
How many here are attorneys?

Any, other than Charles? I'm sure there must be a few, especially on this thread.

Maybe with all the legal opinions offered are attorneys, but may they're the dreaded 'sidewalk and/or jailhouse lawyers'...who're famed for their accurate legal opinions.

If, you are an attorney and offer legal opinions, great, but if you're simply espousing opinions, please, qualify as some of us find it laughable to read if you don't post, 'my opinion' but state things like you really know...
If, you are a forum moderator and are enforcing forum rules, great, but if you're simply espousing opinions, please, qualify as some of us find it laughable to read if you don't post, 'my opinion' but state things like your opinion matters.
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society,
over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it
and a moral code that glorifies it. - Frédéric Bastiat


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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#44

Post by jordanmills » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:03 pm

So get you and your neighbors to start carrying rifles instead.

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Re: Apartment Lease Contract Handgun Addendum

#45

Post by tbrown » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:06 pm

jordanmills wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:03 pm
So get you and your neighbors to start carrying rifles instead.
:cheers2:
sent to you from my safe space in the hill country

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