DACA - Carrying Pistol in Vehicle

[ScottDLS]

Federal law prohibits DACA from owning, purchasing, selling firearms and ammo.

Can it be more clear than that?

Can you post it or give me a link plz.


Federal Laws also say a felon can't own a gun, but in Texas they can after 5 years.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/identify-p ... ed-persons

Identify Prohibited Persons

The Gun Control Act (GCA), codified at 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), makes it unlawful for certain categories of persons to ship, transport, receive, or possess firearms or ammunition, to include any person:

convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

who is a fugitive from justice;

who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);
who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

who is an illegal alien;

who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
who has renounced his or her United States citizenship;

who is subject to a court order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of the intimate partner; or
who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

The GCA at 18 U.S.C. § 992(n) also makes it unlawful for any person under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship, transport, or receive firearms or ammunition.

Further, the GCA at 18 U.S.C. § 922(d) makes it unlawful to sell or otherwise dispose of firearms or ammunition to any person who is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing firearms or ammunition.

Thanks for posting that

But since they are DACA they are not considered Illegal by Executive Order, and as I have stated a few times they are eligible for a Texas Driver Licenses or State ID (Which an illegal alien can not get) and they can get a valid Social Security number and card, Another thing a illegal alien or most legal visa receipents can not get.

You need to look at case posted above by DocV.

https://reason.com/volokh/2018/06/28/dr ... -own-a-gun

This shows that the federal government takes the position that DACA status individual is still a prohibited possessor. That’s the feds. As far as Texas law, it doesn’t appear to have any prohibition on MPA carry. I would also recommend he not attempt to purchase a gun from a FFL dealer and that someone knowing his status not sell him one privately. Both would appear to be violating federal law.

[rotor]

Federal law prohibits DACA from owning, purchasing, selling firearms and ammo.

Can it be more clear than that?

Can you post it or give me a link plz.


Federal Laws also say a felon can't own a gun, but in Texas they can after 5 years.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/identify-p ... ed-persons

Identify Prohibited Persons

The Gun Control Act (GCA), codified at 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), makes it unlawful for certain categories of persons to ship, transport, receive, or possess firearms or ammunition, to include any person:

convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

who is a fugitive from justice;

who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);
who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

who is an illegal alien;

who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
who has renounced his or her United States citizenship;

who is subject to a court order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of the intimate partner; or
who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

The GCA at 18 U.S.C. § 992(n) also makes it unlawful for any person under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship, transport, or receive firearms or ammunition.

Further, the GCA at 18 U.S.C. § 922(d) makes it unlawful to sell or otherwise dispose of firearms or ammunition to any person who is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing firearms or ammunition.

Thanks for posting that

But since they are DACA they are not considered Illegal by Executive Order, and as I have stated a few times they are eligible for a Texas Driver Licenses or State ID (Which an illegal alien can not get) and they can get a valid Social Security number and card, Another thing a illegal alien or most legal visa receipents can not get.

They are still illegal aliens but they have deferred deportation. Therefore by law they can not possess firearms or ammo. The "D" in DACA means deferred. They are not legal. Show me a reference that says they are legal aliens.

[Redranger]

Federal law prohibits DACA from owning, purchasing, selling firearms and ammo.

Can it be more clear than that?

Can you post it or give me a link plz.


Federal Laws also say a felon can't own a gun, but in Texas they can after 5 years.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/identify-p ... ed-persons

Identify Prohibited Persons

The Gun Control Act (GCA), codified at 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), makes it unlawful for certain categories of persons to ship, transport, receive, or possess firearms or ammunition, to include any person:

convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

who is a fugitive from justice;

who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);
who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

who is an illegal alien;

who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
who has renounced his or her United States citizenship;

who is subject to a court order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of the intimate partner; or
who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

The GCA at 18 U.S.C. § 992(n) also makes it unlawful for any person under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship, transport, or receive firearms or ammunition.

Further, the GCA at 18 U.S.C. § 922(d) makes it unlawful to sell or otherwise dispose of firearms or ammunition to any person who is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing firearms or ammunition.

Thanks for posting that

But since they are DACA they are not considered Illegal by Executive Order, and as I have stated a few times they are eligible for a Texas Driver Licenses or State ID (Which an illegal alien can not get) and they can get a valid Social Security number and card, Another thing a illegal alien or most legal visa receipents can not get.

You need to look at case posted above by DocV.

https://reason.com/volokh/2018/06/28/dr ... -own-a-gun

This shows that the federal government takes the position that DACA status individual is still a prohibited possessor. That’s the feds. As far as Texas law, it doesn’t appear to have any prohibition on MPA carry. I would also recommend he not attempt to purchase a gun from a FFL dealer and that someone knowing his status not sell him one privately. Both would appear to be violating federal law.

Good and Valid points

[Redranger]

Federal law prohibits DACA from owning, purchasing, selling firearms and ammo.

Can it be more clear than that?

Can you post it or give me a link plz.


Federal Laws also say a felon can't own a gun, but in Texas they can after 5 years.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/identify-p ... ed-persons

Identify Prohibited Persons

The Gun Control Act (GCA), codified at 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), makes it unlawful for certain categories of persons to ship, transport, receive, or possess firearms or ammunition, to include any person:

convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

who is a fugitive from justice;

who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);
who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

who is an illegal alien;

who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
who has renounced his or her United States citizenship;

who is subject to a court order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of the intimate partner; or
who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

The GCA at 18 U.S.C. § 992(n) also makes it unlawful for any person under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship, transport, or receive firearms or ammunition.

Further, the GCA at 18 U.S.C. § 922(d) makes it unlawful to sell or otherwise dispose of firearms or ammunition to any person who is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing firearms or ammunition.

Thanks for posting that

But since they are DACA they are not considered Illegal by Executive Order, and as I have stated a few times they are eligible for a Texas Driver Licenses or State ID (Which an illegal alien can not get) and they can get a valid Social Security number and card, Another thing a illegal alien or most legal visa receipents can not get.

They are still illegal aliens but they have deferred deportation. Therefore by law they can not possess firearms or ammo. The "D" in DACA means deferred. They are not legal. Show me a reference that says they are legal aliens.

Last I checked in USCIS who is the people you submit visa applicaitons to, I never seen the word Illegal alien, they use the word entered without inspection. So I am pretty sure I wont find the anywhere on USCIS website saying D is Legal

You also make valid point as well.

[03Lightningrocks]

Last I checked in USCIS who is the people you submit visa applicaitons to, I never seen the word Illegal alien, they use the word entered without inspection. So I am pretty sure I wont find the anywhere on USCIS website saying D is Legal

You also make valid point as well.

entering without inspection is illegal.

[tbrown]

Apparently DACA are allowed to carry pistols in vehicles in California because undocumented trumps unregistered.

[Redranger]

Last I checked in USCIS who is the people you submit visa applicaitons to, I never seen the word Illegal alien, they use the word entered without inspection. So I am pretty sure I wont find the anywhere on USCIS website saying D is Legal

You also make valid point as well.

entering without inspection is illegal.

Correct, but in the eyes of the USCIS the wording is entered without inspection, and with just a waiver you can file you can have that forgiven by the USCIS. And make it like it never happened in the eyes of the USCIS.

[ScottDLS]

Last I checked in USCIS who is the people you submit visa applicaitons to, I never seen the word Illegal alien, they use the word entered without inspection. So I am pretty sure I wont find the anywhere on USCIS website saying D is Legal

You also make valid point as well.

entering without inspection is illegal.

Correct, but in the eyes of the USCIS the wording is entered without inspection, and with just a waiver you can file you can have that forgiven by the USCIS. And make it like it never happened in the eyes of the USCIS.

The problem is 18 USC 922.

(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or

Your entry may have even been legal (i.e. tourist visa), but your continued presence contrary to the terms of the visa is unlawful. Also, if you sneaked in your continued presence is still illegal even if deportation action is being deferred. If you are an alien illegally IN the US you are a prohibited person under 18 USC 922 and USCIS position on the deferral is irrelevant.

This is the thing about how DACA (unconstitutionally) works. In order to normalize the status of certain aliens and make their continued presence to be legal, a law must be passed by Congress. Since President Obama couldn't get a bill passed by either a Republican or Democrat Congress, he (executive) ordered a deferral of enforcement for this class of aliens. He then (unlawfully) directed agencies (USCIS, etc) to temporarily provide them with services/documents that would help them continue to remain illegally in the US. To me this seems to directly contradict the Constitutional demand that the.... [President] SHALL take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,...


ETA: Please be assured I am using the rhetorical "you" in my examples, not accusing you of being an illegal alien.

[rotor]

I guess the issue is that perhaps Redranger thinks DACA are legal. That seems to be the only way that one can believe that DACA can posses firearms or ammunition. Therefore if a DACA individual has a firearm or ammo in their possession while driving in Texas they would be committing a federal violation that would be a deportable offense. A smart dreamer would therefore not carry a pistol or ammo in their vehicle. Of course most Texans that have a firearm in their vehicle and are not LTC holders commit federal offenses every day as they drive within 1000 feet of a school. Has anyone ever been charged assuming no other criminal act?

[ScottDLS]

I guess the issue is that perhaps Redranger thinks DACA are legal. That seems to be the only way that one can believe that DACA can posses firearms or ammunition. Therefore if a DACA individual has a firearm or ammo in their possession while driving in Texas they would be committing a federal violation that would be a deportable offense. A smart dreamer would therefore not carry a pistol or ammo in their vehicle. Of course most Texans that have a firearm in their vehicle and are not LTC holders commit federal offenses every day as they drive within 1000 feet of a school. Has anyone ever been charged assuming no other criminal act?

Yes. And back to the original question...It appears perfectly legal under Texas law for an alien under deferred removal to carry a handgun in their car. As to how they acquire the firearm...I don't recommend anyone privately sell or transfer a firearm to someone they know is here under DACA (i.e. an illegal alien). Presumably no FFL dealer will knowingly sell one either. It would involve the alien lying in the 4473 and then the background check missing it.

[03Lightningrocks]

Yes. And back to the original question...It appears perfectly legal under Texas law for an alien under deferred removal to carry a handgun in their car. As to how they acquire the firearm...I don't recommend anyone privately sell or transfer a firearm to someone they know is here under DACA (i.e. an illegal alien). Presumably no FFL dealer will knowingly sell one either. It would involve the alien lying in the 4473 and then the background check missing it.

It would have to be a private party sale. The most likely scenario would involve something sketchy in nature. Selling a gun to a DACA would be legal or illegal if one knew of their status?

[ScottDLS]

Yes. And back to the original question...It appears perfectly legal under Texas law for an alien under deferred removal to carry a handgun in their car. As to how they acquire the firearm...I don't recommend anyone privately sell or transfer a firearm to someone they know is here under DACA (i.e. an illegal alien). Presumably no FFL dealer will knowingly sell one either. It would involve the alien lying in the 4473 and then the background check missing it.

It would have to be a private party sale. The most likely scenario would involve something sketchy in nature. Selling a gun to a DACA would be legal or illegal if one knew of their status?

Selling a gun to an alien illegally in the US is crime. It's pretty clear.

18 USC 922(d)
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—
...
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or

...


I guess to get a conviction the prosecution would likely have to prove the seller knew or had good reason to know that the person was illegally in the US.

[rotor]

Yes. And back to the original question...It appears perfectly legal under Texas law for an alien under deferred removal to carry a handgun in their car. As to how they acquire the firearm...I don't recommend anyone privately sell or transfer a firearm to someone they know is here under DACA (i.e. an illegal alien). Presumably no FFL dealer will knowingly sell one either. It would involve the alien lying in the 4473 and then the background check missing it.

It would have to be a private party sale. The most likely scenario would involve something sketchy in nature. Selling a gun to a DACA would be legal or illegal if one knew of their status?

If you use a "Bill of Sale" such as the one on Texasguntraders.com from which I pilfered the following....


Buyer certifies that they are not restricted or forbidden by law to own a firearm and buyer states that he/she:
• Has NEVER been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year.
• Is NOT a fugitive from justice.
• Is NOT an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.
• Has NEVER been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution.
• Is NOT an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United states or an alien admitted to the United states under a nonimmigrant visa.
• Has NOT been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions.
• Having been a citizen of the United states, has NEVER renounced his or her citizenship.
• Is NOT subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner.
• Has NOT been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
• CAN lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm.
• Is NOT a person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year.

I personally always use a Bill of Sale.

[03Lightningrocks]

Yes. And back to the original question...It appears perfectly legal under Texas law for an alien under deferred removal to carry a handgun in their car. As to how they acquire the firearm...I don't recommend anyone privately sell or transfer a firearm to someone they know is here under DACA (i.e. an illegal alien). Presumably no FFL dealer will knowingly sell one either. It would involve the alien lying in the 4473 and then the background check missing it.

It would have to be a private party sale. The most likely scenario would involve something sketchy in nature. Selling a gun to a DACA would be legal or illegal if one knew of their status?

If you use a "Bill of Sale" such as the one on Texasguntraders.com from which I pilfered the following....


Buyer certifies that they are not restricted or forbidden by law to own a firearm and buyer states that he/she:
• Has NEVER been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year.
• Is NOT a fugitive from justice.
• Is NOT an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.
• Has NEVER been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution.
• Is NOT an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United states or an alien admitted to the United states under a nonimmigrant visa.
• Has NOT been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions.
• Having been a citizen of the United states, has NEVER renounced his or her citizenship.
• Is NOT subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner.
• Has NOT been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
• CAN lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm.
• Is NOT a person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year.

I personally always use a Bill of Sale.

I tend to refrain from adding gun restrictions to myself. The government has enough already.