School activity involving homeschoolers

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jordanmills
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Re: School activity involving homeschoolers

#16

Post by jordanmills » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:03 am

jmra wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:00 am
I am a home school parent. Home schools in Texas are viewed as non-certified private schools. Your child does not receive a high school diploma from the state of Texas upon graduation. I don’t see how these gatherings could possibly be viewed as a school sponsored activity when Co-ops are little more than social clubs.
Depends on what the coop does. Some are glorified social clubs. Some are organizations that provide matching and classroom facilities for teachers and students in a formal educational environment.

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rob777
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Re: School activity involving homeschoolers

#17

Post by rob777 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:31 am

jordanmills wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:03 am
jmra wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:00 am
I am a home school parent. Home schools in Texas are viewed as non-certified private schools. Your child does not receive a high school diploma from the state of Texas upon graduation. I don’t see how these gatherings could possibly be viewed as a school sponsored activity when Co-ops are little more than social clubs.
Depends on what the coop does. Some are glorified social clubs. Some are organizations that provide matching and classroom facilities for teachers and students in a formal educational environment.
We've homeschooled for 20+ years. The co-ops we've been a part of over the years are like these. But creating a 'formal educational environment' still doesn't make it a licensed or certified 'school'. No different than taking a course online.
IMO
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Re: School activity involving homeschoolers

#18

Post by Flightmare » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:26 am

Maybe I'm just missing it in the text of the penal code, but I do not see the words "certified" or "accredited" used to qualify a school. It simply says:
"School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school.
Only place I found it defined was 46.11

If Leeper v Arlington ISD did define home schooling as a private school, then it would make sense that group sponsored activities (such as organized athletics, graduations, science fairs, etc) would be prohibited locations, just as if they were at any other private or public school.

I'm no lawyer though, nor have I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn.
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jmra
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Re: School activity involving homeschoolers

#19

Post by jmra » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:06 pm

Flightmare wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:26 am
Maybe I'm just missing it in the text of the penal code, but I do not see the words "certified" or "accredited" used to qualify a school. It simply says:
"School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school.
Only place I found it defined was 46.11

If Leeper v Arlington ISD did define home schooling as a private school, then it would make sense that group sponsored activities (such as organized athletics, graduations, science fairs, etc) would be prohibited locations, just as if they were at any other private or public school.

I'm no lawyer though, nor have I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn.
If that were so (which it isn’t) every homeschool household would be a prohibited place.
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Flightmare
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Re: School activity involving homeschoolers

#20

Post by Flightmare » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:50 pm

jmra wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:06 pm
Flightmare wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:26 am
Maybe I'm just missing it in the text of the penal code, but I do not see the words "certified" or "accredited" used to qualify a school. It simply says:
"School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school.
Only place I found it defined was 46.11

If Leeper v Arlington ISD did define home schooling as a private school, then it would make sense that group sponsored activities (such as organized athletics, graduations, science fairs, etc) would be prohibited locations, just as if they were at any other private or public school.

I'm no lawyer though, nor have I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn.
If that were so (which it isn’t) every homeschool household would be a prohibited place.
TX PC 46.03 PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless:

(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
Emphasis mine. My non-lawyer understanding reads that as since you are in control of the "institution", you may grant yourself permission to carry. Again, I'm no lawyer and I welcome any corrections to my understanding.
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WildBill
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Re: School activity involving homeschoolers

#21

Post by WildBill » Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:48 pm

Flightmare wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:50 pm
jmra wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:06 pm
Flightmare wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:26 am
Maybe I'm just missing it in the text of the penal code, but I do not see the words "certified" or "accredited" used to qualify a school. It simply says:
"School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school.
Only place I found it defined was 46.11

If Leeper v Arlington ISD did define home schooling as a private school, then it would make sense that group sponsored activities (such as organized athletics, graduations, science fairs, etc) would be prohibited locations, just as if they were at any other private or public school.

I'm no lawyer though, nor have I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn.
If that were so (which it isn’t) every homeschool household would be a prohibited place.
TX PC 46.03 PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless:

(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
Emphasis mine. My non-lawyer understanding reads that as since you are in control of the "institution", you may grant yourself permission to carry. Again, I'm no lawyer and I welcome any corrections to my understanding.
I am not a lawyer either, but I don't think that a home school meets the definition of an institution. I think that the term is being confused with a building, premise or property.
Institution . Establishment, foundation, or organization created to pursue a particular type of endeavor, such as banking by a financial institution.
2. Consistent and organized pattern of behavior or activities (established by law or custom) that is self-regulating in accordance with generally accepted norms.
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J.R.@A&M
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Re: School activity involving homeschoolers

#22

Post by J.R.@A&M » Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:17 pm

WildBill wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:48 pm
Flightmare wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:50 pm
jmra wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:06 pm
Flightmare wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:26 am
Maybe I'm just missing it in the text of the penal code, but I do not see the words "certified" or "accredited" used to qualify a school. It simply says:
"School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school.
Only place I found it defined was 46.11

If Leeper v Arlington ISD did define home schooling as a private school, then it would make sense that group sponsored activities (such as organized athletics, graduations, science fairs, etc) would be prohibited locations, just as if they were at any other private or public school.

I'm no lawyer though, nor have I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn.
If that were so (which it isn’t) every homeschool household would be a prohibited place.
TX PC 46.03 PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless:

(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
Emphasis mine. My non-lawyer understanding reads that as since you are in control of the "institution", you may grant yourself permission to carry. Again, I'm no lawyer and I welcome any corrections to my understanding.
I am not a lawyer either, but I don't think that a home school meets the definition of an institution. I think that the term is being confused with a building, premise or property.
Institution . Establishment, foundation, or organization created to pursue a particular type of endeavor, such as banking by a financial institution.
2. Consistent and organized pattern of behavior or activities (established by law or custom) that is self-regulating in accordance with generally accepted norms.
Again, we’re talking about two different things: 1) The “school activity” status of an individual home school, and 2) the “school activity” status of an organization, cooperative, or business that provides services to gatherings of homeschoolers.

I never gave a thought to item 1), me being the superintendent-principle-school-board-president-armed janitor, etc. It’s the second item that prompted my original question.
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jordanmills
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Re: School activity involving homeschoolers

#23

Post by jordanmills » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:03 pm

rob777 wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:31 am
jordanmills wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:03 am
jmra wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:00 am
I am a home school parent. Home schools in Texas are viewed as non-certified private schools. Your child does not receive a high school diploma from the state of Texas upon graduation. I don’t see how these gatherings could possibly be viewed as a school sponsored activity when Co-ops are little more than social clubs.
Depends on what the coop does. Some are glorified social clubs. Some are organizations that provide matching and classroom facilities for teachers and students in a formal educational environment.
We've homeschooled for 20+ years. The co-ops we've been a part of over the years are like these. But creating a 'formal educational environment' still doesn't make it a licensed or certified 'school'. No different than taking a course online.
IMO
I don't disagree with you. I more wanted to add to someone's understanding of what co-ops do.

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SewTexas
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Re: School activity involving homeschoolers

#24

Post by SewTexas » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:19 pm

I homeschooled both of mine through, the whole time. I think for the most part, everyone has covered everything.
Right now there really isn't a definition in the law, other than in the Leeper decision, of "homeschool"....that may change if the "UIL" bill passes, which is why I, and many other homeschoolers, fight it so hard.
~Tracy
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir

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