Sign Posting On A Collage Campus

[stan5686]

I have just encountered a new, to me at least, situation regarding allowing carry. At LeTourneau University in Longview TX they have the Belcher Center. This is an auditorium for shows, concerts, events etc. There are no signs 30.06 or 30.07 at the doors or nothing else to indicate that no concealed carry is allowed. We attend events there and I decided to call to check their policy. The Belcher Center box office said no concealed carry was allowed but they could not tell me about the fact there were no signs. LeTourneau University Campus Police told me there are not any signs posted of any type. They don't allow carry but they do not use metal detectors of frisk people. If they see someone they suspect to be armed the officer I spoke to said they visit with the person and explain their no firearms policy to them. He said they would rather you leave your weapon in your car.
I got the idea that if I carried in the Belcher Center and I was well concealed with zero patterning that I would not be checked or questioned. And if I were checked I would be given the opportunity to carry my gun back to the car and return. The officer was very courteous in is explanation and thanked me for being a Concealed Carry Holder. Any ideas or input on this will be welcomed. Thank you.

[KC5AV]

It’s been several months since I was on the LETU campus, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy. Are there not 30.06 and 30.07 signs as you enter the campus from S. Mobberly? I know that LETU is a private university, and they opted out of campus carry when they were given the opportunity.

Welcome to the forum.

[Keith B]

I have just encountered a new, to me at least, situation regarding allowing carry. At LeTourneau University in Longview TX they have the Belcher Center. This is an auditorium for shows, concerts, events etc. There are no signs 30.06 or 30.07 at the doors or nothing else to indicate that no concealed carry is allowed. We attend events there and I decided to call to check their policy. The Belcher Center box office said no concealed carry was allowed but they could not tell me about the fact there were no signs. LeTourneau University Campus Police told me there are not any signs posted of any type. They don't allow carry but they do not use metal detectors of frisk people. If they see someone they suspect to be armed the officer I spoke to said they visit with the person and explain their no firearms policy to them. He said they would rather you leave your weapon in your car.
I got the idea that if I carried in the Belcher Center and I was well concealed with zero patterning that I would not be checked or questioned. And if I were checked I would be given the opportunity to carry my gun back to the car and return. The officer was very courteous in is explanation and thanked me for being a Concealed Carry Holder. Any ideas or input on this will be welcomed. Thank you.

Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately since you contacted them, you have now been given legal oral notification of no carry, and now cannot carry there no matter.

[oohrah]

30.07 signs on campuses are irrelevant becasue open carry on any public or private college campus is prohibited by statute. If a private campus wants to opt out of campus carry, they must post valid 30.06 signs on each building that is opted out, including stadiums, classroom buildings and dorms. Faculty and staff are normally given effective notice by employee policy, which prohibits them from carrying anywhere.

But a visitor to campus unfamiliar with policy must receive effective notice via signage or they are free to CC on the grounds or in any building not properly posted.

I agree with Keith, but if you did not give them your name, then how would they know you had been notified.

And just to close the loop, public campuses cannot opt out, and if they post any 30.06, they must justify it to the lege.

FWIW, I routinely CC to class at my local community college.

[oljames3]

My 20 year old son will take his LTC class soon and file when he turns 21 later this year. He is looking forward to carrying concealed on his community college campus.

[jb2012]

Unfortunately forgivesness would have been better than permission in this instance. If there are no signs, and is not statutorily off limits, it is not illegal to carry. Maybe you will be asked to leave, but no legal ramifications.

[PriestTheRunner]

I'm a graduate of LeTourneau. No signs means carry is allowed for non students. The only things off limits for non students are dorms (per policy but has no legal authority without signage) and collegian sporting events per legislative code. No signs means carry away these days, especially with the 2019 revision to 30.06.

Students (unfortunately) received notification via the student handbook. I carried at graduation as I was no longer a student...

They need to change that policy.

[ScottDLS]

I'm a graduate of LeTourneau. No signs means carry is allowed for non students. The only things off limits for non students are dorms (per policy but has no legal authority without signage) and collegian sporting events per legislative code. No signs means carry away these days, especially with the 2019 revision to 30.06.

Students (unfortunately) received notification via the student handbook. I carried at graduation as I was no longer a student...

They need to change that policy.

People keep sa that students received notice via the student handbook. Does the student handbook have the exact wording specified in 30.06? If not, they did not receive effective notice.

[Liberty]

I'm a graduate of LeTourneau. No signs means carry is allowed for non students. The only things off limits for non students are dorms (per policy but has no legal authority without signage) and collegian sporting events per legislative code. No signs means carry away these days, especially with the 2019 revision to 30.06.

Students (unfortunately) received notification via the student handbook. I carried at graduation as I was no longer a student...

They need to change that policy.

People keep sa that students received notice via the student handbook. Does the student handbook have the exact wording specified in 30.06? If not, they did not receive effective notice.

Even if it does have exact wording. Handing someone a book is no quarentee that they actually read or saw the notice that is burried in pile of rules and regulations. It's not the same as handing someone a card or pamphlet with the notice printed on it.

[oohrah]

Two things from above.

1. College sporting events are no longer prohibited by statute. Campus carry law changed that. Colleges must post 30.06 to prohibit carry at sporting events.

2. Employee and student handbooks may not have the exact proper wording, but violating a policy in that handbook can get you suspended or fired, regardless of whether they can prosecute you for trespass.

[montgomery]

Unfortunately forgivesness would have been better than permission in this instance. If there are no signs, and is not statutorily off limits, it is not illegal to carry. Maybe you will be asked to leave, but no legal ramifications.

Except for the fact he has already been given verbal notice, which is legally valid effective notice.

[Texas_Blaze]

I have just encountered a new, to me at least, situation regarding allowing carry. At LeTourneau University in Longview TX they have the Belcher Center. This is an auditorium for shows, concerts, events etc. There are no signs 30.06 or 30.07 at the doors or nothing else to indicate that no concealed carry is allowed. We attend events there and I decided to call to check their policy. The Belcher Center box office said no concealed carry was allowed but they could not tell me about the fact there were no signs. LeTourneau University Campus Police told me there are not any signs posted of any type. They don't allow carry but they do not use metal detectors of frisk people. If they see someone they suspect to be armed the officer I spoke to said they visit with the person and explain their no firearms policy to them. He said they would rather you leave your weapon in your car.
I got the idea that if I carried in the Belcher Center and I was well concealed with zero patterning that I would not be checked or questioned. And if I were checked I would be given the opportunity to carry my gun back to the car and return. The officer was very courteous in is explanation and thanked me for being a Concealed Carry Holder. Any ideas or input on this will be welcomed. Thank you.

Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately since you contacted them, you have now been given legal oral notification of no carry, and now cannot carry there no matter.

Better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission

[Texas_Blaze]

I'm a graduate of LeTourneau. No signs means carry is allowed for non students. The only things off limits for non students are dorms (per policy but has no legal authority without signage) and collegian sporting events per legislative code. No signs means carry away these days, especially with the 2019 revision to 30.06.

Students (unfortunately) received notification via the student handbook. I carried at graduation as I was no longer a student...

They need to change that policy.

People keep sa that students received notice via the student handbook. Does the student handbook have the exact wording specified in 30.06? If not, they did not receive effective notice.

Even if it does have exact wording. Handing someone a book is no quarentee that they actually read or saw the notice that is burried in pile of rules and regulations. It's not the same as handing someone a card or pamphlet with the notice printed on it.

Unless they are forced to sign acknowledging that they have received the student handbook

[ScottDLS]

I'm a graduate of LeTourneau. No signs means carry is allowed for non students. The only things off limits for non students are dorms (per policy but has no legal authority without signage) and collegian sporting events per legislative code. No signs means carry away these days, especially with the 2019 revision to 30.06.

Students (unfortunately) received notification via the student handbook. I carried at graduation as I was no longer a student...

They need to change that policy.

People keep sa that students received notice via the student handbook. Does the student handbook have the exact wording specified in 30.06? If not, they did not receive effective notice.

Even if it does have exact wording. Handing someone a book is no quarentee that they actually read or saw the notice that is burried in pile of rules and regulations. It's not the same as handing someone a card or pamphlet with the notice printed on it.

Yeah I was reading through the law and it says "provides notice to the person" and then describes notice as (among other things) a card or document. In my opinion this means that the owners/owners' agent PROVIDE (give, hand, present) the notice (handbook) TO THE PERSON. Again, IMO that means giving it individually to the person...not "there's a handbook on the website and all students have to read it".

I am also of the opinion that this applies to oral notice. "I heard the CEO on TV say he doesn't like guns in WalMart" does not in my mind translate to "Entrance on to the property of any WalMart owned or leased property in the state of Texas by ScottDLS while carrying a handgun under the authority of GC 411 is hereby prohibited for all time under all circumstances". As a practical matter oral notice would seem to need to be given in person and in a clear specific manner. "Oh well you called the hotline and the answering service said no guns"...that means you are forever prohibited from carrying... Really? How does that work? As a practical matter. If the property owner really cares, they can post a sign...

[PriestTheRunner]

I'm a graduate of LeTourneau. No signs means carry is allowed for non students. The only things off limits for non students are dorms (per policy but has no legal authority without signage) and collegian sporting events per legislative code. No signs means carry away these days, especially with the 2019 revision to 30.06.

Students (unfortunately) received notification via the student handbook. I carried at graduation as I was no longer a student...

They need to change that policy.

People keep sa that students received notice via the student handbook. Does the student handbook have the exact wording specified in 30.06? If not, they did not receive effective notice.

Even if it does have exact wording. Handing someone a book is no quarentee that they actually read or saw the notice that is burried in pile of rules and regulations. It's not the same as handing someone a card or pamphlet with the notice printed on it.

Yeah I was reading through the law and it says "provides notice to the person" and then describes notice as (among other things) a card or document. In my opinion this means that the owners/owners' agent PROVIDE (give, hand, present) the notice (handbook) TO THE PERSON. Again, IMO that means giving it individually to the person...not "there's a handbook on the website and all students have to read it".

I am also of the opinion that this applies to oral notice. "I heard the CEO on TV say he doesn't like guns in WalMart" does not in my mind translate to "Entrance on to the property of any WalMart owned or leased property in the state of Texas by ScottDLS while carrying a handgun under the authority of GC 411 is hereby prohibited for all time under all circumstances". As a practical matter oral notice would seem to need to be given in person and in a clear specific manner. "Oh well you called the hotline and the answering service said no guns"...that means you are forever prohibited from carrying... Really? How does that work? As a practical matter. If the property owner really cares, they can post a sign...

The problem is (at least at LETU when I went there) that they gave you a physical handbook which you had to acknowledge in writing when registering. In the book were the words "applies even if the student has a concealed carry license" or something along those lines. I'll try and find the book, but that seems to be effective notice to me.