Class lll manufacturers

[narcissist]

Wondering if you can carry a Class lll glock 18 as your carry gun for your LTC. If so im going through all the necessary processing to get my manufacturing license. If you could help with this question so I dont have to bug my attorney, I'd be much ablige... Thanks ahead of time.

[jb2012]

Wondering if you can carry a Class lll glock 18 as your carry gun for your LTC. If so im going through all the necessary processing to get my manufacturing license. If you could help with this question so I dont have to bug my attorney, I'd be much ablige... Thanks ahead of time.

Don’t have my FFL nor SOT, however I have looked into what it takes to manufacture and/or acquire post sample machine guns and be able to acquire without a year long wait for a stamp. First off I believe it is about 500 a year, and that must be maintained yearly or the ATF will confiscate all NFA items without a regular folks tax stamp. The second issue is you must have a business and be able to prove business. The third issue is getting a letter from law enforcement allowing you to manufacture or acquire post sample machine guns for “demo” purposes. At least for me it just did not seem worth it.

[mrvmax]

You would be carrying a firearm classified under NFA. A type 07 with class 2 SOT would be needed to manufacture and you would need a “law letter” to build a G18. The ATF will not approve a type 07 without some things already mentioned. It’s not going to be worth your time and money to do. I would also question why anyone would carry a G18 other than “because I can”. There is no good tactical reason and I would think the liability (from just using it in self defense or hitting an unintended target) would not be wise but it’s your life.

[Jago668]

Wondering if you can carry a Class lll glock 18 as your carry gun for your LTC. If so im going through all the necessary processing to get my manufacturing license. If you could help with this question so I dont have to bug my attorney, I'd be much ablige... Thanks ahead of time.

Don’t have my FFL nor SOT, however I have looked into what it takes to manufacture and/or acquire post sample machine guns and be able to acquire without a year long wait for a stamp. First off I believe it is about 500 a year, and that must be maintained yearly or the ATF will confiscate all NFA items without a regular folks tax stamp. The second issue is you must have a business and be able to prove business. The third issue is getting a letter from law enforcement allowing you to manufacture or acquire post sample machine guns for “demo” purposes. At least for me it just did not seem worth it.

Same here on not being a FFL/SOT. My readings of random things that catch my interest turned up the same information, and I came to the same conclusion.

[The Annoyed Man]

Let's compare two scenarios....

The scene: a grand jury meeting, to which you’ve been called to appear to decide if you should be indicted on a murder charge for the shooting you were involved in.

Scenario #1:
DA: "What kind of pistol were you carrying, and how many rounds does it hold?"
YOU: "A Glock 17 with a 17 round magazine, plus a round in the chamber."
DA: "Why did you draw and fire at the deceased?"
YOU: "Because he charged at me after threatening to beat my butt with the bat he was holding."
DA: "And how many rounds did you fire?"
YOU: "I recall it being 3 rounds. I fired until the attacker stopped."
DA (to the jury): "What say ye."
JURY: "No-bill!"
DA: "You are free to go, Mr. Narcissist."

Scenario #2
DA: "What kind of pistol were you carrying, and how many rounds does it hold?"
YOU: "A Glock 18 with a 33 round magazine, plus a round in the chamber."
DA: "The Glock 18 is fully automatic, is it? What is that pistol's rate of fire?"
YOU: "Yessir, it is. I believe that the cyclic rate of fire is 1200 rounds per minute."
DA: "So let me understand this....at 1200 rounds per minute, you could dump nearly the the entire 34 rounds in the gun before you could release the trigger?"
YOU: "Theoretically, yes."
DA: "Why did you draw and fire at the deceased?"
YOU: "Because he charged at me after threatening to beat my butt with the bat he was holding."
DA: "And how many rounds did you fire?"
YOU: "I recall it being 32 rounds. I pulled the trigger once, and the gun fired like a chainsaw before I could let go of the trigger. There were 2 rounds left in the gun."
DA: "Did that stop the attack?"
YOU (with a big grin): "Why, YESSIR, it most certainly did!"
DA: "Isn’t it kind of hard to control that way?"
YOU: "Yeah, it’s a little dicey. The muzzle does jump around a bit."
DA: "I see. And how many bystanders did you hit exactly? Was it 3 or 4, and did they survive?"
YOU: "It was 4, but only one of them died."
DA (to the jury): "What say ye."
JURY: "HANG HIM HIGH!!!!"
DA: "Bailiff, place Mr. Narcissist in to cuffs and transport him to the jailhouse pending trial."

Maybe you ought to reconsider this idea of yours.

[jason812]

Don't forget about ITAR at $2500/year.

[Scott B.]

You don't need a law letter if you're manufacturing the item, that's for acquiring a post-sample (unless it's a no-letter item).

You are responsible for every bullet in your gun.

Could you? Sure. Would anybody you care about what to be near you when you used it? No. Who wants to spend all that time on a witness stand.

[03Lightningrocks]

You have a point TAM. The idea of self defense is shoot to stop the attack. Shooting to kill can get tricky, to say the least.

[narcissist]

Let's compare two scenarios....

The scene: a grand jury meeting, to which you’ve been called to appear to decide if you should be indicted on a murder charge for the shooting you were involved in.

Scenario #1:
DA: "What kind of pistol were you carrying, and how many rounds does it hold?"
YOU: "A Glock 17 with a 17 round magazine, plus a round in the chamber."
DA: "Why did you draw and fire at the deceased?"
YOU: "Because he charged at me after threatening to beat my butt with the bat he was holding."
DA: "And how many rounds did you fire?"
YOU: "I recall it being 3 rounds. I fired until the attacker stopped."
DA (to the jury): "What say ye."
JURY: "No-bill!"
DA: "You are free to go, Mr. Narcissist."

Scenario #2
DA: "What kind of pistol were you carrying, and how many rounds does it hold?"
YOU: "A Glock 18 with a 33 round magazine, plus a round in the chamber."
DA: "The Glock 18 is fully automatic, is it? What is that pistol's rate of fire?"
YOU: "Yessir, it is. I believe that the cyclic rate of fire is 1200 rounds per minute."
DA: "So let me understand this....at 1200 rounds per minute, you could dump nearly the the entire 34 rounds in the gun before you could release the trigger?"
YOU: "Theoretically, yes."
DA: "Why did you draw and fire at the deceased?"
YOU: "Because he charged at me after threatening to beat my butt with the bat he was holding."
DA: "And how many rounds did you fire?"
YOU: "I recall it being 32 rounds. I pulled the trigger once, and the gun fired like a chainsaw before I could let go of the trigger. There were 2 rounds left in the gun."
DA: "Did that stop the attack?"
YOU (with a big grin): "Why, YESSIR, it most certainly did!"
DA: "Isn’t it kind of hard to control that way?"
YOU: "Yeah, it’s a little dicey. The muzzle does jump around a bit."
DA: "I see. And how many bystanders did you hit exactly? Was it 3 or 4, and did they survive?"
YOU: "It was 4, but only one of them died."
DA (to the jury): "What say ye."
JURY: "HANG HIM HIGH!!!!"
DA: "Bailiff, place Mr. Narcissist in to cuffs and transport him to the jailhouse pending trial."

Maybe you ought to reconsider this idea of yours.

You had me crackin up! You're right no doubt about it, Scenerio 2 would definitely happen. Bad idea but you must admit would be "tacti-coool".

[mrvmax]

You don't need a law letter if you're manufacturing the item, that's for acquiring a post-sample (unless it's a no-letter

So how are dealer samples exempt from ATF regs? NFA handbook section 479.105 (d) states an application must be made and approved if you have a letter from a governmental entity expressing a need for that model. I haven’t read through all the NFA regs so there must be a way around that.

[Scott B.]

Look at it from the manufacturing side, not the purchase side.

It's a closed loop though. They're not registrable and the potential customer pool is tiny to non-existent. Rentals can work if you have a good range setup. T&E is fun for a little bit, but your ammo budget suffers.

[ScottDLS]

Look at it from the manufacturing side, not the purchase side.

It's a closed loop though. They're not registrable and the potential customer pool is tiny to non-existent. Rentals can work if you have a good range setup. T&E is fun for a little bit, but your ammo budget suffers.

Well technically they are registered when you manufacture them (send in your Form 2). But the customer pool is limited to law enforcement agencies and possibly export to foreign governments (since you have to pay the ITAR fees anyway).

[Scott B.]

Look at it from the manufacturing side, not the purchase side.

It's a closed loop though. They're not registrable and the potential customer pool is tiny to non-existent. Rentals can work if you have a good range setup. T&E is fun for a little bit, but your ammo budget suffers.

Well technically they are registered when you manufacture them (send in your Form 2). But the customer pool is limited to law enforcement agencies and possibly export to foreign governments (since you have to pay the ITAR fees anyway).

Yes, technically you're correct. They cannot be added to the pool of 175k (or so) commercially registered and transferable machineguns or sear packs, didn't want any confusion about that.