Is this legal open carry?

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

User avatar

Topic author
Bozz48
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:21 am

Is this legal open carry?

#1

Post by Bozz48 » Tue May 19, 2020 7:43 am

I can't really find a definitive answer. Does an IWB holster, but exposed, qualify as a legal belt holster? I would like to open carry like this, but I don't know if it's legal.

ImageIMG_6065 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/152171653@N05/]


Papa_Tiger
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 708
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 9:55 am

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#2

Post by Papa_Tiger » Tue May 19, 2020 8:12 am

Texas Penal Code Sec. 46.035 wrote: UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a shoulder or belt holster by the license holder.
That is all the legal definition we receive in the law. I don't think any rational DA would accept charges from an officer if you were out in public like that.

User avatar

SQLGeek
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:48 am
Location: Richmond, TX

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#3

Post by SQLGeek » Tue May 19, 2020 8:16 am

I see a holster...clipped to a belt...I think you're good. :cool:
Psalm 91:2

User avatar

The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 25643
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#4

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue May 19, 2020 8:39 am

Shoot Point Blank stores tell their employees that they may carry a firearm, but that if they do, it must be open-carried IWB, shirt tucked in. All shirts must be tucked in anyway.

I doubt that they’d be knowingly telling their employees to break the law. And since, among other services they offer, they teach LTC classes..........
• Give me Liberty or I'll get up and get it myself.
• I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.
• My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings.
• Independent Minarchist.

User avatar

SQLGeek
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:48 am
Location: Richmond, TX

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#5

Post by SQLGeek » Tue May 19, 2020 8:45 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:39 am
Shoot Point Blank stores tell their employees that they may carry a firearm, but that if they do, it must be open-carried IWB, shirt tucked in. All shirts must be tucked in anyway.

I doubt that they’d be knowingly telling their employees to break the law. And since, among other services they offer, they teach LTC classes..........
Well an employer is a little different under the law IIRC or at least used to be prior to the passage of open carry. Many gun stores had their employees open carrying before the law was changed.
Psalm 91:2


Tex1961
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 789
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:11 am
Location: Frisco, Texas

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#6

Post by Tex1961 » Tue May 19, 2020 9:01 am

Papa_Tiger wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:12 am
Texas Penal Code Sec. 46.035 wrote: UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a shoulder or belt holster by the license holder.
That is all the legal definition we receive in the law. I don't think any rational DA would accept charges from an officer if you were out in public like that.
Doesn't the new LTC laws (open carry) nullify that subsection?
Mike
Owner of Tejas Products "Manufacturer of firearm related accessories and custom laser engraving.
NRA Pistol Instructor
Range Safety Officer

WWW.TEJASPRODUCTS.COM

User avatar

LucasMcCain
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 679
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:00 pm
Location: DFW, Texas

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#7

Post by LucasMcCain » Tue May 19, 2020 9:12 am

You're carrying in a belt holster. You're good.
I carry a gun so that I can go home to my family, and if need be, help you go home to yours.

I am not a lawyer.


Grayling813
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 994
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:18 am

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#8

Post by Grayling813 » Tue May 19, 2020 9:16 am

LucasMcCain wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:12 am
You're carrying in a belt holster. You're good.
:iagree:
Keep asking the question, “Cui bono?” (For whose benefit?)
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
~ Henry David Thoreau


Papa_Tiger
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 708
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 9:55 am

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#9

Post by Papa_Tiger » Tue May 19, 2020 9:18 am

Tex1961 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:01 am
Papa_Tiger wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:12 am
Texas Penal Code Sec. 46.035 wrote: UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a shoulder or belt holster by the license holder.
That is all the legal definition we receive in the law. I don't think any rational DA would accept charges from an officer if you were out in public like that.
Doesn't the new LTC laws (open carry) nullify that subsection?
The bold, red section is open carry. :lol:

User avatar

oljames3
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 3807
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:21 pm
Location: Elgin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#10

Post by oljames3 » Tue May 19, 2020 10:18 am

Papa_Tiger wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:18 am
Tex1961 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:01 am
Papa_Tiger wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:12 am
Texas Penal Code Sec. 46.035 wrote: UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a shoulder or belt holster by the license holder.
That is all the legal definition we receive in the law. I don't think any rational DA would accept charges from an officer if you were out in public like that.
Doesn't the new LTC laws (open carry) nullify that subsection?
The bold, red section is open carry. :lol:
:iagree:
O. Lee James, III Captain, US Army (Retired 2012), Honorable Order of St. Barbara
2/19FA, 1st Cavalry Division 73-78; 56FA BDE (Pershing) 78-81
NRA Distinguished Life Member (Disabled Vet), TSRA, NAR L1


strogg
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:51 pm
Location: DFW (Denton County)

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#11

Post by strogg » Tue May 19, 2020 12:07 pm

IWB/open is exactly how I've been carrying this past week, including this morning when I was running errands.

IANAL, but this is how I interpret the laws: as long as the holster is a shoulder or belt holster (regardless of design), it is fine to use. Open carrying with a belly band, pocket holster, or ankle holster is not fine because the letter of the law does not have an exception to these methods of carry. For those wondering about open carrying in a pocket holster, imagine carrying a large pocket pistol (eg LC9s, P365, etc) in a pocket holster designed for jeans pockets that are bigger than the ones you have. It is perfectly safe and well retained for carry, but the grip is very much sticking out of your pocket.

The only type of holster I can think of in a gray area is a drop leg holster. Technically, your belt is a critical attachment point, but does it really qualify as a belt holster if it also has critical attachment points to the leg.

User avatar

oljames3
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 3807
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:21 pm
Location: Elgin, Texas
Contact:

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#12

Post by oljames3 » Tue May 19, 2020 1:01 pm

strogg wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 12:07 pm
IWB/open is exactly how I've been carrying this past week, including this morning when I was running errands.

IANAL, but this is how I interpret the laws: as long as the holster is a shoulder or belt holster (regardless of design), it is fine to use. Open carrying with a belly band, pocket holster, or ankle holster is not fine because the letter of the law does not have an exception to these methods of carry. For those wondering about open carrying in a pocket holster, imagine carrying a large pocket pistol (eg LC9s, P365, etc) in a pocket holster designed for jeans pockets that are bigger than the ones you have. It is perfectly safe and well retained for carry, but the grip is very much sticking out of your pocket.

The only type of holster I can think of in a gray area is a drop leg holster. Technically, your belt is a critical attachment point, but does it really qualify as a belt holster if it also has critical attachment points to the leg.
I am not aware of any court cases involving a decision about what is "a shoulder or belt holster" in the context of Texas law.https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs ... /PE.46.htm Until we have case law, we only have opinion. Here is an opinion from the then Police Chief of Houston and the then Harris County DA. Obviously, this is from 4 years ago, but it represents the opinion of the main law enforcement of Houston and Harris county at the time and is, just as obviously, still available on Art Asevedo's HPD's web site. There are two videos and a Q&A section. Item 26 on the Q&A list is:
What is a “belt holster” and what kind of holster would be a violation?
The law does not define a “belt holster”; the law just states you must carry your handgun in a “shoulder or belt holster.” A “drop down” holster attached to your belt is considered to be a belt holster.
http://www.houstontx.gov/police/open_carry/
O. Lee James, III Captain, US Army (Retired 2012), Honorable Order of St. Barbara
2/19FA, 1st Cavalry Division 73-78; 56FA BDE (Pershing) 78-81
NRA Distinguished Life Member (Disabled Vet), TSRA, NAR L1

User avatar

troglodyte
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1206
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:16 pm
Location: Hockley County
Contact:

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#13

Post by troglodyte » Tue May 19, 2020 1:51 pm

Personally, and IANAL, I think the intent of the law is that the weapon is securely attached to your body in a holster that safely retains it. No stuffing it in your waistband or hanging on a lanyard around your neck Tuco-style. I feel the law-makers didn't get anymore specific for a reason; not to dictate certain types of holsters. I don't see any problem with the OPs method of carry.

But my opinions are worth what you paid for them.
Talon Firearms Training
License To Carry Instructor, School Safety Instructor
NRA Instructor - Basic Pistol, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home.
Stop The Bleed Instructor

User avatar

jmorris
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Cibolo
Contact:

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#14

Post by jmorris » Tue May 19, 2020 2:28 pm

strogg wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 12:07 pm
IWB/open is exactly how I've been carrying this past week, including this morning when I was running errands.

IANAL, but this is how I interpret the laws: as long as the holster is a shoulder or belt holster (regardless of design), it is fine to use. Open carrying with a belly band, pocket holster, or ankle holster is not fine because the letter of the law does not have an exception to these methods of carry. For those wondering about open carrying in a pocket holster, imagine carrying a large pocket pistol (eg LC9s, P365, etc) in a pocket holster designed for jeans pockets that are bigger than the ones you have. It is perfectly safe and well retained for carry, but the grip is very much sticking out of your pocket.

The only type of holster I can think of in a gray area is a drop leg holster. Technically, your belt is a critical attachment point, but does it really qualify as a belt holster if it also has critical attachment points to the leg.
During my instructor class, 2016, the DPS instructor stated that a belt holster is one directly attached to a belt so a drop leg holster doesn't qualify. A drink cup held onto you by a belt of masking tape does. Yes, he had one on while stating that.

So, for the OP, if the clip is on the belt it appears to qualify. Take the belt off so there's only the waistband holding it and it's not valid.

The point seemed to be that being designed to be used on a belt doesn't make it a belt holster, being on a belt does. This is also why they said a handgun in a holster laying on a car seat is not legal. It's not in a belt holster cause the holster is not attached to a belt.

Don't know if they're still stating this. Recent grads chime in here.
Jay E Morris, Guardian Firearm Training, NRA Pistol, LTC, Cibolo, Tx
NRA Lifetime
TSRA Lifetime (as of my Jan 2019 official old fart birthday)
NRA Recruiter (link)

User avatar

Flightmare
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 2590
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:00 pm
Location: Plano, TX

Re: Is this legal open carry?

#15

Post by Flightmare » Tue May 19, 2020 2:40 pm

jmorris wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 2:28 pm
This is also why they said a handgun in a holster laying on a car seat is not legal. It's not in a belt holster cause the holster is not attached to a belt.
What if the holster on the car seat was attached to a belt, would it be legal then?
Deplorable lunatic since 2016

Post Reply

Return to “General Texas CHL Discussion”