Private University LEOs

Topics that do not fit anywhere else. Absolutely NO discussions of religion, race, or immigration!

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

Post Reply
User avatar

Topic author
nightmare69
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 22
Posts: 2032
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:03 pm
Location: East Texas

Private University LEOs

#1

Post by nightmare69 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:25 pm

I would like to see Texas Education Code § 51.212 revised to included licensed Texas peace officers employed by a private university to have all the same powers, privileges, and immunities of other Texas peace officers as defined in Texas CCP Article § 2.12. We hold the same license through TCOLE and go through all the required training as every other peace officer in this state yet our authority is limited. This makes no sense to me.
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.

User avatar

Pawpaw
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 6572
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:16 am
Location: Hunt County

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#2

Post by Pawpaw » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:49 pm

So, in other words, you think anyone that can afford to hire someone with the proper credentials should be empowered to enforce the law and make arrests?

No thanks.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

NRA Benefactor Life Member


gljjt
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#3

Post by gljjt » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:53 pm

nightmare69 wrote:I would like to see Texas Education Code § 51.212 revised to included licensed Texas peace officers employed by a private university to have all the same powers, privileges, and immunities of other Texas peace officers as defined in Texas CCP Article § 2.12. We hold the same license through TCOLE and go through all the required training as every other peace officer in this state yet our authority is limited. This makes no sense to me.
I have to disagree on this one. You are working in the private sector exclusively. You are not a "public servent". To have the "same powers, privileges, and immunities of other Texas peace officers" while working in the private sector creates a privileged class of private citizen. Yes, you have the training and license, but are not servicing the public. Nothing personal, just a philosophical stance.

User avatar

Topic author
nightmare69
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 22
Posts: 2032
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:03 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#4

Post by nightmare69 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:15 pm

gljjt wrote: I have to disagree on this one. You are working in the private sector exclusively. You are not a "public servent". To have the "same powers, privileges, and immunities of other Texas peace officers" while working in the private sector creates a privileged class of private citizen. Yes, you have the training and license, but are not servicing the public. Nothing personal, just a philosophical stance.
The university has a very well known event center that hosts plays, graduations, concerts, weekly that the general public attends and we work security for those events. Is that not serving the public? How about a few weeks ago I was on my lunch break at a local diner (off campus) and had a intoxicated individual causing a disturbance in the parking lot, I detained this person until local LE arrived to transport him to jail. Since I don't have "full" authority should I not get involved when a crime is happening in my presence? I could articulate I was "assisting" local LE as described in 51.212.
(b) Any officer commissioned under the provisions of this section is vested with all the powers, privileges, and immunities of peace officers if the officer:
(1) is on the property under the control and jurisdiction of the respective private institution of higher education or is otherwise performing duties assigned to the officer by the institution, regardless of whether the officer is on property under the control and jurisdiction of the institution, but provided these duties are consistent with the educational mission of the institution and are being performed within a county in which the institution has land; or
(2) to the extent authorized by Section 51.2125, is:
(A) requested by another law enforcement agency to provide assistance in enforcing state or local law, including a municipal ordinance, and is acting in response to that request; or
(B) otherwise assisting another law enforcement agency in enforcing a law described by Paragraph (A).
Pawpaw wrote:So, in other words, you think anyone that can afford to hire someone with the proper credentials should be empowered to enforce the law and make arrests?

No thanks.
What is the difference with an ISD police department hiring peace officers with your tax dollars?
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.

User avatar

Pawpaw
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 6572
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:16 am
Location: Hunt County

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#5

Post by Pawpaw » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:23 pm

nightmare69 wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:So, in other words, you think anyone that can afford to hire someone with the proper credentials should be empowered to enforce the law and make arrests?

No thanks.
What is the difference with an ISD police department hiring peace officers with your tax dollars?
Where did you see me say I agree with that? Nonetheless, an ISD IS government owned and not private sector.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

NRA Benefactor Life Member

User avatar

mojo84
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 16
Posts: 9009
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Boerne, TX (Kendall County)

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#6

Post by mojo84 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:32 pm

Do the private universities have to establish police departments that conform to state standards? If so, and they hire licensed commissioned peace officers, seems like they should be considered peace officers just as others are in my opinion.
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.


gljjt
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#7

Post by gljjt » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:38 pm

nightmare69 wrote:
The university has a very well known event center that hosts plays, graduations, concerts, weekly that the general public attends and we work security for those events. Is that not serving the public?
No, you are serving the employer, the PRIVATE university. A peace officer employed by an ISD, city, county, state, etc., serves me. The taxpayer. You would be an entitled citizen with those powers. IF you screw up, at the restaurant for example, who is liable, the University? I think not. Only you. You become a PD of one. I don't approve of that. We will have to disagree. Again, this isn't directed at you personally, but the circumstance.

User avatar

mojo84
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 16
Posts: 9009
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Boerne, TX (Kendall County)

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#8

Post by mojo84 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:53 pm

gljjt wrote:
nightmare69 wrote:
The university has a very well known event center that hosts plays, graduations, concerts, weekly that the general public attends and we work security for those events. Is that not serving the public?
No, you are serving the employer, the PRIVATE university. A peace officer employed by an ISD, city, county, state, etc., serves me. The taxpayer. You would be an entitled citizen with those powers. IF you screw up, at the restaurant for example, who is liable, the University? I think not. Only you. You become a PD of one. I don't approve of that. We will have to disagree. Again, this isn't directed at you personally, but the circumstance.
Check out what Rice has to say about their officers. https://cohesion.rice.edu/campusservices/rupd/about.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, just about all police agencies I'm aware of have Law Enforcement Professional Liability (Errors & Omissions) coverage or they self insure. This provides coverage for when there is a claim.
Last edited by mojo84 on Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.

User avatar

Beiruty
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 9314
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: Allen, Texas

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#9

Post by Beiruty » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:54 pm

:iagree:
Beiruty,
United we stand, dispersed we falter
2014: NRA Endowment lifetime member


gljjt
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#10

Post by gljjt » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:55 pm

mojo84 wrote:Do the private universities have to establish police departments that conform to state standards? If so, and they hire licensed commissioned peace officers, seems like they should be considered peace officers just as others are in my opinion.
Then they become liable for non university activity you may do. I don't think they want that and I am speculating that is why the law is written the way it is. If you want full, 24 hour, peace officer privileges, join a tax funded department.


gljjt
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#11

Post by gljjt » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:59 pm

mojo84 wrote:
gljjt wrote:
nightmare69 wrote:
The university has a very well known event center that hosts plays, graduations, concerts, weekly that the general public attends and we work security for those events. Is that not serving the public?
No, you are serving the employer, the PRIVATE university. A peace officer employed by an ISD, city, county, state, etc., serves me. The taxpayer. You would be an entitled citizen with those powers. IF you screw up, at the restaurant for example, who is liable, the University? I think not. Only you. You become a PD of one. I don't approve of that. We will have to disagree. Again, this isn't directed at you personally, but the circumstance.
Check out what Rice has to say about their officers. https://cohesion.rice.edu/campusservices/rupd/about.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, just about all police agencies I'm aware of have Law Enforcement Professional Liability (Errors & Omissions) coverage or they self insure. This provides coverage for when there is a claim.
Everything in that article refers to on campus responsibility and authority. I'll bet their insurance is cheaper if you are only insured for university police responsibilities. Self insure means THEY pay for YOUR mistakes. I'm sure they don't want to do that for off campus activity. If you want fulltime authority, work for a public agency. Regardless, we will just have to disagree. I am done on this topic. Thanks for what you do and best of luck in your LE career.

User avatar

Topic author
nightmare69
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 22
Posts: 2032
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:03 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#12

Post by nightmare69 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:07 pm

mojo84 wrote:Do the private universities have to establish police departments that conform to state standards? If so, and they hire licensed commissioned peace officers, seems like they should be considered peace officers just as others are in my opinion.
We have to conform to all standards required by the Texas Commission of Law Enforcement.


gljjt wrote:
No, you are serving the employer, the PRIVATE university. A peace officer employed by an ISD, city, county, state, etc., serves me. The taxpayer. You would be an entitled citizen with those powers. IF you screw up, at the restaurant for example, who is liable, the University? I think not. Only you. You become a PD of one. I don't approve of that. We will have to disagree. Again, this isn't directed at you personally, but the circumstance.
If I am in uniform and there is a crime happening in my presence Im going to get involved as it is my duty. How would it look in the public's eye if I sat idly by and said "sorry, I'm commissioned by a private university and don't have full authority here. You will need to call local LE as Texas law and liability reasons keep me from getting involved." That is not going to happen and if I screw up acting in good faith trying to uphold the law then so be it, I'll take my chances in court.

I and others are looking into have a local LE agency within the county carry our commission to get around this restriction. We shouldn't have to hold a separate commission with another department but until this law is changed we will continue to look at other avenues. All the local Police Chiefs and Sheriffs agree that we should be on the same level as other Texas peace officers. I have yet to hear anyone in LE disagree.
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.

User avatar

Topic author
nightmare69
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 22
Posts: 2032
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:03 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#13

Post by nightmare69 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:14 pm

gljjt wrote:Everything in that article refers to on campus responsibility and authority. I'll bet their insurance is cheaper if you are only insured for university police responsibilities. Self insure means THEY pay for YOUR mistakes. I'm sure they don't want to do that for off campus activity. If you want fulltime authority, work for a public agency. Regardless, we will just have to disagree. I am done on this topic. Thanks for what you do and best of luck in your LE career.
I try to focus on serving the university to the best of my ability and enforcing the law along with going home at end of watch. I don't worry so much about the red tape, I just want to do my job and keep our students safe. Thank you for your opinion.
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.

User avatar

hillfighter
Banned
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:56 pm
Location: Hill Country

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#14

Post by hillfighter » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:33 pm

I would like to see the legislature close the Corporate Cop loophole.

I think most of us agree it's appropriate we have DPS troopers, county sheriffs, municipal police, etc. They work for government agencies.

I don't think there's any legitimate public safety reason for TCU, Valero, Dell, or other corporations to have private security with full police powers, etc.
"support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic"

User avatar

mojo84
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 16
Posts: 9009
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:07 pm
Location: Boerne, TX (Kendall County)

Re: Critical legislation for 2015

#15

Post by mojo84 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:46 pm

hillfighter wrote:I would like to see the legislature close the Corporate Cop loophole.

I think most of us agree it's appropriate we have DPS troopers, county sheriffs, municipal police, etc. They work for government agencies.

I don't think there's any legitimate public safety reason for TCU, Valero, Dell, or other corporations to have private security with full police powers, etc.

Are private companies such as Dell and Valero allowed to establish police departments?

There's a difference between hiring of duty cops and establishing a full fledged police department.
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.

Post Reply

Return to “Off-Topic”