What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disease?

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Tracker
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What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disease?

#1

Post by Tracker » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:40 pm

Is it eating too much and exercising too little? Probably, not.

Fist off doctors don't get nutritional training. You shouldn't trust most doctor's opinions on diet:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/16/health/16chen.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Within days of being accepted into medical school, I started getting asked for medical advice. Even my closest friends, who should have known better, got in on the action...Each and every time someone posed such a query, I became immediately cognizant of one thing: the big blank space in my brain. After all, even with medical school acceptance in hand, I was no more a doctor than they were.....Years later, as a newly minted doctor on the wards seeing real patients, I found myself in the same position. I was still getting a lot of questions about food and diet. And I was still hesitating when answering. I wasn’t sure I knew that much more after medical school than I did before. One day I mentioned this uncomfortable situation to another young doctor. “Just consult the dietitians if you have a problem,” she said after listening to my confession. “They’ll take care of it.” She paused for a moment, looked suspiciously around the nursing station, then leaned over and whispered, “I know we’re supposed to know about nutrition and diet, but none of us really does.

She was right. And nearly 20 years later, she may still be.

Research has increasingly pointed to a link between the nutritional status of Americans and the chronic diseases that plague them. Between the growing list of diet-related diseases and a burgeoning obesity epidemic, the most important public health measure for any of us to take may well be watching what we eat.

But few doctors are prepared to effectively spearhead or even help in those efforts. In the mid-1980s, the National Academy of Sciences published a landmark report highlighting the lack of adequate nutrition education in medical schools; the writers recommended a minimum of 25 hours of nutrition instruction. Now, in a study published this month, it appears that even two and a half decades later a vast majority of medical schools still fail to meet the minimum recommended 25 hours of instruction."
I've been a natural bodybuilder and martial artist for nearly 40 years. I got into listening to the AMA/AHA dietary guidelines and tried to follow it. Heart disease runs in my family so the topic was important to me, personally. Because the FDA said so, I thought low carb diets were bull. Several years ago, now in my mid 50, I learned (thanks to the internet) that those dietary guidelines for eating low saturated fat was not based upon any biochemistry. Rather, it was based upon epidemiology, aka population statistics. While I think stats are useful guide for health they only give a starting point hypothesis that then needs testing using hard sciences, such as biochemistry.

At one time we were told not eat egg yokes because of all the cholesterol in them. Now eggs are fine and good for you. Why? the recommendation not to eat them was based on stats, not human biochemistry.

Well guess what????? Now that there's better biochemistry science, saturated fat no longer causes cardiovascular/heart disease.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/267834.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That saturated fat no longer is implemented in cardiovascular answered a long bodybuilding question I had. To use some basic numbers:
hang with me on this....Suppose your daily calorie needs to keep weight stable is 2000 calories (BMR) and the doctor instructs you to loose 100lb over the next 350 days. So you cut eating a 1000 calories per day. And lets say you are not eating any fat in your diet...Well guess what? Your body still needs those 2000 calories. But not now those lost 1000 calories are coming from your own stored...saturated fat.

Before you went on your diet maybe you only ate 15% of your calories came from saturated fat. When you go on a diet you daily consumption of saturated fat increases....its just coming from your own stored bodyfat.

If you are hanging with me, here's the point: Whether you eat saturated fat or breaking down your own body's saturated fat it's all the same....It's all entering you arteries as saturated fatty acids. Those 1000 caloies coming from your own stored body fat is the equivalent of eating a stick of butter every day for the next 350 days. If you told your cardiologist you were doing that he'd flip out. The question I had for years/decades was this : If eating saturated fat causes heart disease why doesn't going on a long duration diet also cause heart disease? Why does your cholesterol numbers get better?


The main person who kick started Americans eating a high carb low fat diet was an epidemiologist named Ancel Keys.... and George McGovern " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can give a lot more links then these explain it well. Maintaining weight is about discipline. It's more about what you eat and not about controlling appetite. :
Gary Taubes is a science journalist who has teamed up with Dr Peter Attia MD.

To prove he isn't some crank MD here's Attia's bio: http://eatingacademy.com/dr-peter-attia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Attia got his undergrad and masters in engineering. He intended to get his PhD in aerospace engineering but had a change of heart and decided to become an MD. So he spent the next year teaching college calculus and working on his prerequisites for med school. He then enrolled in Stanford Medical School and did his residency in general surgery at Johns Hopkins.

Attia would exercise 3 hours every day. He's an ultra-marathon swimmer and long distance bicycler. He swam the Catalina Channel twice (a distance of 25 miles) and he was the first person to swim the Maui Channel over and back. Even though he was exercising that much he still got over weight.

These links are talks they gave, Attia followed Taubes. Taubes gives the history and bad science that went into the dietary guidelines, and, using some high tech biochemistry experiments, Attia shows how his blood work improved eating a 4000 calorie diet that was 80% fat.

Gary Taubes
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dr. Peter Attia MD
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



PubMed
Published in May 2015
Paleolithic nutrition improves plasma lipid concentrations of hypercholesterolemic adults to a greater extent than traditional heart-healthy dietary recommendations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26003334" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Abstract
Recent research suggests that traditional grain-based heart-healthy diet recommendations, which replace dietary saturated fat with carbohydrate and reduce total fat intake, may result in unfavorable plasma lipid ratios, with reduced high-density lipoprotein (HDL) and an elevation of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) and triacylglycerols (TG). The current study tested the hypothesis that a grain-free Paleolithic diet would induce weight loss and improve plasma total cholesterol, HDL, LDL, and TG concentrations in nondiabetic adults with hyperlipidemia to a greater extent than a grain-based heart-healthy diet, based on the recommendations of the American Heart Association. Twenty volunteers (10 male and 10 female) aged 40 to 62 years were selected based on diagnosis of hypercholesterolemia. Volunteers were not taking any cholesterol-lowering medications and adhered to a traditional heart-healthy diet for 4 months, followed by a Paleolithic diet for 4 months. Regression analysis was used to determine whether change in body weight contributed to observed changes in plasma lipid concentrations. Differences in dietary intakes and plasma lipid measures were assessed using repeated-measures analysis of variance. Four months of Paleolithic nutrition significantly lowered (P < .001) mean total cholesterol, LDL, and TG and increased (P < .001) HDL, independent of changes in body weight, relative to both baseline and the traditional heart-healthy diet. Paleolithic nutrition offers promising potential for nutritional management of hyperlipidemia in adults whose lipid profiles have not improved after following more traditional heart-healthy dietary recommendations.
Copyright © 2015 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

University of California:
The Skinny on Obesity - UCTV Prime (Metabolic Syndrome)
http://www.uctv.tv/skinny-on-obesity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Jumping Frog
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#2

Post by Jumping Frog » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:25 pm

Well, it is clear that you are touching on some of the correct subjects, and I fully agree that grains and sugars are what is killing us, not fat.

However, if you want to continue your learning, take a look at the relationship between a paleo-oriented diet and all the research coming out on the gut biome. It takes more than just diet to achieve health. A good place to start is:

[youtube][/youtube]
-Just call me Bob . . . Texas Firearms Coalition, NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, and OFCC Patron member

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More Obamination. Idiots. Can't we find an electable (R) for 2016?


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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#3

Post by Tracker » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:33 pm

I'm there with you, frog. When I looked into it paleo it was like "crap" I gotta relearn everything I thought it as read that about diet and nutrition.

I apply paleo concepts to diet and exercise.

I pretty much, independently, for followed the road as addictive Doug McGuff

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


PaJ
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#4

Post by PaJ » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:24 am

Interesting. My family has a history of heart disease and diabetes. Personally, I was born with four heart defects, and am a cancer survivor. For the past two years, I have had a number of unexplained health issues including severe weight gain and chronic GI problems.

I recently went to a doctor who practices Functional Medicine. She is a board certified Internal Medicine doctor, but functional medicine incorporates other factors such as nutrition and spirituality as well. I am going through a battery of tests right now. From those tests , she will be able to idententify the foods that are causing problems in my body, and recommend dietary changes to get me as healthy as I can be.

She is an advocate of the Paleo diet, in general. I am looking forward to my test results.

Since beginning to follow some Palo principles, I've lost 20 lbs. I feel better, but not good. I am not 100% on a Paleo diet yet because she wanted my testing to catch my normal diet and my reaction to certain foods. We will see what happens when I get results in five weeks or so.

Meanwhile, I am having a heart cath done to investigate some V Tach that showed up in my recent routine visit to my cardiologist.

I am only 47. At the rate I am going, I won't see 50.

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#5

Post by Jumping Frog » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:10 am

PaJ wrote:I recently went to a doctor who practices Functional Medicine.
I'd love to find a similar doctor in Northwest Houston.

My current endocrinologist will do my regular blood draws for me, but I still have to firmly tell him no, I will not take statin drugs. :roll:
-Just call me Bob . . . Texas Firearms Coalition, NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, and OFCC Patron member

This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
More Obamination. Idiots. Can't we find an electable (R) for 2016?


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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#6

Post by Tracker » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:16 am

Jumping Frog wrote:
PaJ wrote:I recently went to a doctor who practices Functional Medicine.
I'd love to find a similar doctor in Northwest Houston.

My current endocrinologist will do my regular blood draws for me, but I still have to firmly tell him no, I will not take statin drugs. :roll:

Here's start to finding one of those doctors


http://paleophysiciansnetwork.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://paleodiethouston.com/2011/03/02/ ... n-houston/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://primaldocs.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Before going paleo I was having metabolic syndrome symptoms, high blood pressure. I love went to my exercise fanatic doc and he said I don't want to put you on statins. You know what to do. Get back in shape and drop some weight. So for the next year I did. But then I stalled and couldn't drop any more. When read up on paleo and decided to give it a 30 day trail, I dropped 10 pounds. It just so happened I had to take my aunt to this doc so I asked him if he ever heard of paleo. He said yes. After I told him the weight lost he asked me how I felt. I thought of him my energy level and concentration has shot up. That's when he told me he'd been doing paleo for 6 months. I had noticed he'd dropped weight


PaJ
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#7

Post by PaJ » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:07 am

Jumping Frog wrote:
PaJ wrote:I recently went to a doctor who practices Functional Medicine.
I'd love to find a similar doctor in Northwest Houston.

My current endocrinologist will do my regular blood draws for me, but I still have to firmly tell him no, I will not take statin drugs. :roll:
I live in NW Houston. She is in Sugarland. Google Dr Ghei. Very nice lady. I am impressed so far. A friend recommended her to me. He and I have shared our struggles fir several years. He has been under her treatment for about six months and, in his words, is a believer in her methods.


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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#8

Post by Tracker » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:15 am

Dr Terry Wahls MD, was diagnosed with MS and was confined to a wheelchair, she now rides a bike for exercise. She went paleo and became a functional MD

Here's her story: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#9

Post by Jumping Frog » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:48 am

Yes, I am familiar with Dr. Wahl's work. Dr. Amy Myers is also on the same wavelength and wrote the Autoimmune Solution. Her practice is based in Austin.
-Just call me Bob . . . Texas Firearms Coalition, NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, and OFCC Patron member

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#10

Post by Jim Beaux » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:57 pm

Ive learned to ignore most of the experts & have formed my own opinion & adopted my own rules.

1. Moderation in all things. (including calories)
2. Exercise.
3. Focus on basic foods. Avoid or limit refined foods. (peeled fruit & veggies, juices, & alcohol are refined).
4. Refined sugar is poison.
5. Drink when youre thirsty.
5. Do not take vitamins or other supplements unless a blood profile indicates a deficiency.
6. Question your doctor before accepting a prescription. Then question the pharmacist. (you would be surprised at differing advice.
7. Genetics is a major player.
8. We need all types of fiber.
8. I am willing to die for coffee.

Let Food Be Your Medicine and Medicine Be Your Food
“In the world of lies, truth-telling is a hanging offense"
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PaJ
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#11

Post by PaJ » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:55 pm

Jim Beaux wrote:Ive learned to ignore most of the experts & have formed my own opinion & adopted my own rules.

1. Moderation in all things. (including calories)
2. Exercise.
3. Focus on basic foods. Avoid or limit refined foods. (peeled fruit & veggies, juices, & alcohol are refined).
4. Refined sugar is poison.
5. Drink when youre thirsty.
5. Do not take vitamins or other supplements unless a blood profile indicates a deficiency.
6. Question your doctor before accepting a prescription. Then question the pharmacist. (you would be surprised at differing advice.
7. Genetics is a major player.
8. We need all types of fiber.
8. I am willing to die for coffee.

Let Food Be Your Medicine and Medicine Be Your Food
Overall, good rules to live by...except for a modification to #1. I once heard a speaker whose speech was titled, "Everything in Moderation except Laughter, Sex, Vegetables and Fish." I haven't found anything wrong with any of those to excess. :anamatedbanana :anamatedbanana

I did an Ironman triathlon in 2011. I was training up to 20 hours per week, and it took me 15 hours, 42 minutes to complete the course. I learned a lot about nutrition for an endurance athlete (lots of complex carbs with moderate lean protein). My goal for 50% of my diet to be vegetables, 25% lean protein and 25% whole grains. It worked well for me except trying to consume 3500 to 6000 calories a day with 50% vegetables was a chore. I was tired of eating all the time.

Due to a number of life changes, my exercise regiment is pathetic now. I find that the diet I ate while training for Ironman doesn't seem to work so well now but I'm not exactly sure why. (obviously I couldn't eat so many calories, but the same types of food shouldn't result in the issues I'm having). I know that diet, lack of exercise and stress are large contributors to my current health. My cardiac issues are not unexpected for a person my age with the birth defects I had. I'm overdue for a valve replacement. I also think (based on Google, MD) that I am experiencing rather severe inflammation, which is linked to most of the issues I'm experiencing. A lot of research is saying inflammation can also be the cause of clogged arteries, dementia, and a whole host of other ailments.

Honestly, the journey has been quite fascinating. I'm hoping Dr. Ghei will put me on a fast track to recovery instead of me having to guess.

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#12

Post by Jumping Frog » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:57 pm

PaJ wrote:... and 25% whole grains. ...
Grains are a major health problem. Every bit as much poison as sugar. Don't even get me started. That is the probable source of your inflammation, and inflammation is the underlying cause of virtually all the modern diseases of civilization, including heart disease, diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer's, . . . .
-Just call me Bob . . . Texas Firearms Coalition, NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, and OFCC Patron member

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#13

Post by WildBill » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:58 pm

This is turning out to be an interesting thread. :tiphat:
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#14

Post by Jim Beaux » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:48 pm

PaJ I cycled and ran for years and experimented with nutrition. November 2013 I had a quintuple bypass surgery. Just before that time I was running an average of 70 -80 miles a month.

Surgeon intended to do surgery without stopping my heart -but because it was so muscular (large), he couldnt access all the plumbing & was forced to stop my heart and use the pump. My recovery was exceptional and I gave the nurses in rehab nervous break downs because I couldnt force myself to treadmill at 1 mph for only 20 minutes. Didnt take long before they left me alone!

After all the years of trying to eat right, now I dont care and eat what gets in my way. I am big time over weight and lazy. I ate bacon for the first time in years Friday. :mrgreen:
“In the world of lies, truth-telling is a hanging offense"
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Tracker
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#15

Post by Tracker » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:40 pm

Mark Sisson was an elite marathoner, once finished 4th in the Ironman. He seldom runs distance now just for exercise. He coined the term "Chronic Cardio" http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-evid ... z3d5O6ABOO" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'll quote this portion from Sisson's blog:
"Atherosclerosis

It’s totally counterintuitive to think that endurance athletes are at risk for arterial plaque. “You mean to tell me that the wispy greybeard whizzing past my house in short shorts every evening could have clogged arteries? No way.” Maybe, just maybe.

A 2011 study found evidence of carotid and peripheral atherosclerosis in a group of marathoners. Although there was no control group of non-runners in that study, another study compared the arteries of marathon runners to a control group of sedentary non-marathoners. Marathoners had more calcified plaque in their coronary arteries, which has been linked to stroke and dementia. The tricky thing about these cases is that endurance athletes with atherosclerosis don’t evince the regular signs. Whereas your typical sedentary guy with extensive atherosclerosis will probably have all the hallmarks (metabolic syndrome, abdominal obesity, hypertension, etc.), marathon runners with atherosclerosis don’t fit the traditional cardiovascular risk profile.

It might be time to add “trains for endurance athletics” to the list of risk factors.
BTW If you don't know who Sisson is, he's the guy who sells "the drink" on the P90X videos. He's 62 years old. He has a saying: "Once you get the diet dialed in right it's amazing how little exercise you actually need to be fit": https://www.google.com/search?q=mark+si ... 20&bih=922" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a podcast where he interviewed Dr Timothy Noakes MD, PhD. Noakes wrote the bible on running, The Lore of Running, that competitive endurance runners used for decades. Noakes promoted a high carb diet for runners. He's now reversed that 180 and promotes a high fat diet low carb diet for endurance training. Even though he was running a lot Noakes now has Type 2 Diabetes and he contributes that to eating excess carbs. This interview is very interesting: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the ... 60187?mt=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I took the following Youtube link from the Ancestry Health Symposium. I know someone, personally, who ran a lot, training for half marathons. This person I know now has a pacemaker and says his cardiologist told him his needing a pacemaker was due to his excess running.

James O'Keefe MD — Cardiovascular Damage From Extreme Endurance Exercise
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Abstract:
Although a daily routine of physical activity confers remarkable benefits for quality and quantity of life, prolonged continuous high-intensity exercise can cause adverse structural remodeling of the heart and large arteries. An evolving body of data indicates that chronically training for and participating in extreme endurance competitions (marathons, ultra-marathons, Iron-man distance triathlons, etc.) can cause acute volume overload of the atria and right ventricle, with transient reductions in right ventricular function and elevations of cardiac biomarkers, all of which generally return to normal within 7 to 10 days.
In veteran extreme endurance athletes, this recurrent myocardial injury and repair may eventually result in patchy myocardial fibrosis, particularly in the atria, and right ventricle, creating a substrate for atrial and ventricular arrhythmias.
Furthermore, chronic, extreme endurance exercise may be associated with accelerated aging in the heart and coronary arteries. This presentation will discuss the cardiac pathophysiology of extreme endurance exercise, and make suggestions about better fitness patterns for conferring optimal health and longevity.

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