"militias"

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Odinvalknir
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"militias"

#1

Post by Odinvalknir » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:19 am

Not sure where else to post this, so mods feel free to move if need be.

What exactly is it going to take before regular citizens decide they've had enough of the peaceful protests? I don't even live in one of the affected cities and I have already had plenty. The mayors and Governors of these states have effectively tied the hands of the cops. Side note, I am 100% in agreement that the police in this country need reform. However cutting their budgets and ensuring they have 0 training and 0 equipment isn't exactly what I think of when I hear the phrase.


So if the cops are essentially useless at this point, not allowed to use any crowd control i.e tear gas, batons, shields, or even LRAD. what is the point of them attempting to stop these riots at all? How long until they decide "If we are neutered, why not go out and rally the citizens". The left has trash talked the 2nd amendment for decades. They love the talking point surrounding the use of the term "militia" in the wording of the 2nd amendment. So why not give them exactly that? Regular citizens deputized by the cops, or even the fed. The way the president is federally deputizing state cops. The only way this stops, short of institution of the insurrection act that I can see, is regular citizens get sick of being used as human shields for the rioters. Get sick of their business being burned to the ground, looted, defaced, etc. I think it's high time people quit worrying about being labeled racist and "right wing extremists".


I haven't cared what people thought of me for years, I could care less if the media wanted to slander me and call me a white supremacist. antifa and blm are terrorists, and if state governments are going to support them, it's time those politicians running those state governments are torn down. PRECISELY what the 2nd amendment is for, removing tyrranical governments and taking power away from power hungry lunatics.

I am not a great fan of Trump, I only voted for him in 16 because who in their right mind would've voted for the alternative? He's done quite a few things that I look upon as "good" in the last 4yrs. He's also done some things I'm not real happy with, chief among them currently is his muted response to the riots. He's left it in the hands of deranged lunatics running the large cities and blue states. Either send in the nasty girl (national guard). Or start supporting regular citizens to go out and clean the streets. I don't want to see Americans killed, no matter what their crazy ideals. I served to preserve the freedoms we have, especially the ones that allow these people to March, protest, and openly carry firearms while doing so.


But they've gone too far, they had gone too far 100 days ago. Now they're stalking and murdering people for "wrong think". It has to stop. As much as it pains me to even think it, it's going to take something akin to "civil war" to put an end to this. From the city government level all the way to the fed. The corruption and shadeyness at ALL levels needs to be removed.


Anyway, that's my rant. Sorry for the long read, but I'm sick of seeing the bias and the support for TERRORISTS in the streets of a country that I love and would die for.

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Re: "militias"

#2

Post by Paladin » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:22 pm

Odinvalknir wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:19 am
...I'm sick of seeing the bias and the support for TERRORISTS in the streets of a country that I love and would die for.
:iagree:
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Re: "militias"

#3

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:25 pm

I understand what you’re saying, but I’d quibble on some of the finer points.....

1. You don’t have to be "deputized" to be in the militia. The unorganized militia is already defined in 10 U.S. Code § 246 (b) (2) as: "... the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia." (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246)

2. As I understand it, Posse Comitatus prevents POTUS from federalizing Nat'l Guard troops unless asked for by the governor of the state in question; and unless asked for, the governor controls his/her state's Nat'l Guard. The governors of the affected states are all leftists who side with the rioters, hate Trump, and would never ask for that kind of help from him......which is a major reason why, weeks later, cities like Portland are still burning.
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Re: "militias"

#4

Post by crazy2medic » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:29 pm

I'm a little less magnanimous, I think on the third day of the rights the national guard should have been sent in with orders to stop the riots and looting by whatever means necessary!
The President is limited in his scope to deal with State issues however telling federal agents to use whatever force necessary to protect federal property is within his power!
Militia has to be called forth by the State governor and since the govenors are reluctant to put down the unrest maybe the people should remove the governor and stop the riots!
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Re: "militias"

#5

Post by Odinvalknir » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:34 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:25 pm
I understand what you’re saying, but I’d quibble on some of the finer points.....

1. You don’t have to be "deputized" to be in the militia. The unorganized militia is already defined in 10 U.S. Code § 246 (b) (2) as: "... the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia." (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246)

2. As I understand it, Posse Comitatus prevents POTUS from federalizing Nat'l Guard troops unless asked for by the governor of the state in question; and unless asked for, the governor controls his/her state's Nat'l Guard. The governors of the affected states are all leftists who side with the rioters, hate Trump, and would never ask for that kind of help from him......which is a major reason why, weeks later, cities like Portland are still burning.


I know the populous wouldn't "need" to be deputized. I guess I used the term to convey the cops needing the support. Plus if it was publicly stated as such, some of the lesser bright people out there could understand it better. Seeing as the news media would IMMEDIATELY spin it to be "right wing white supremacists are attacking!!!!!".


Trump has already threatened, if the governors of these states won't do it themselves he would go ahead and do it for them. I guess that means insurrection act. I'm not aware of too many other avenues at this point. Either regular citizens get out there and get these people out of their cities. Or the insurrection act gets used and the entire country basically falls under martial law. If these morons end up bringing down the hammer on themselves I suspect MANY innocents will be caught in the middle.


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Re: "militias"

#6

Post by Odinvalknir » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:39 pm

crazy2medic wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:29 pm
I'm a little less magnanimous, I think on the third day of the rights the national guard should have been sent in with orders to stop the riots and looting by whatever means necessary!
The President is limited in his scope to deal with State issues however telling federal agents to use whatever force necessary to protect federal property is within his power!
Militia has to be called forth by the State governor and since the govenors are reluctant to put down the unrest maybe the people should remove the governor and stop the riots!
I completely agree. After the first fire was set, and these protests turned into riots, they should have IMMEDIATELY been put down. I'm hoping the citizens don't need to called forth, they need to gather on their own and decide they have had enough of this nonsense. I live in Houston, and other than a little ruckus a few days after dude overdosed and died under the knee of that cop, it has been fairly quiet down here. However I'm sure we are all aware of what happened in Austin and what is going on currently in Dallas.

I am more libertarian than anything else. I fully support protesting for a good and just cause, however the right we have for protesting only covers PEACEABLY assembling. As soon as you start burning, looting, and out right MURDERING people you have forfeited your right to live. The minute you put someones life in danger or actually murder someone. This is just all WAY beyond anything I ever imagined happening in my country. I've seen it over seas, and we called it "just". We actively HELPED groups over seas who were rioting and revolting. Now its come home, but the cause isn't at all just. If it ever was, it sure isn't anymore.


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Re: "militias"

#7

Post by wheelgun1958 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:57 pm

It's my understanding the insurrection act changes things allowing CIC (Trump) to federalize national guard sans state cooperation.


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Re: "militias"

#8

Post by Odinvalknir » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:24 pm

I don't know honestly. I never aspired to politics, it's a dirty business. After service I became an electrician and eventually an I/E technician. However I've seen this kind of thing happen in other countries and this is pretty much exactly how it starts. It ends with lots of blood shed and generally someone of note getting slaughtered. I'd like to think it couldn't happen here, but these blm and antifa fanatics seem hell bent on being martyrs and furthering the violence. There will be more killings by the crazies and probably a few more by those on the opposite side. Things have escalated rapidly, and continue to do so. I can't even imagine what we will be dealing with in November after the circus election. I'll keep my tank filled, plates close and rifles loaded.

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Re: "militias"

#9

Post by C-dub » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:47 pm

crazy2medic wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:29 pm
I'm a little less magnanimous, I think on the third day of the rights the national guard should have been sent in with orders to stop the riots and looting by whatever means necessary!
The President is limited in his scope to deal with State issues however telling federal agents to use whatever force necessary to protect federal property is within his power!
Yup, but as TAM mentioned, look who has the authority to do so in the states and cities where this is happening.
crazy2medic wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:29 pm
Militia has to be called forth by the State governor and since the govenors are reluctant to put down the unrest maybe the people should remove the governor and stop the riots!
Whoa there cowboy. I know, but other than by the ballot box this is a YUGE step I don't know if anyone is ready for yet. It looks like some have dipped their toes in that pool already and hopefully that has woken a bunch of folks up enough to realize that they don't really want any more folks in that pool. Suddenly I have the Caddyshack pool scene in my head. Sorry.
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Re: "militias"

#10

Post by Beiruty » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:57 pm

You can do what Texas Law allows under sections of defense of self, others, and property.

Enforcing the law is not the job of the Citizens or the militia. LEO chiefs has to deputize Citizens to increase the number of his force under his command.

You would have to consult an expert constitutional lawyer in case of no Sherrif or Chief LEO in town
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Re: "militias"

#11

Post by Odinvalknir » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:13 pm

Beiruty wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:57 pm
You can do what Texas Law allows under sections of defense of self, others, and property.

Enforcing the law is not the job of the Citizens or the militia. LEO chiefs has to deputize Citizens to increase the number of his force under his command.

You would have to consult an expert constitutional lawyer in case of no Sherrif or Chief LEO in town
..
Right I agree with all of that. However my point may have gotten lost. In these cities that are currently burning, the mayors and Governors have taken ALL of the power and ability of LE to do ANYTHING. Day after day I see, watch, and read stories how these governors are outlawing the use of effective crowd control tools. In chicago, portland, kenosha, milwaukee, etc the cops have been told they CANNOT use batons, gas, pepper balls, shields, or LRAD. Furthermore, the local DAs are refusing to actually prosecute anyone who gets arrested. The cops pick em up, the DA and judges let them go on no bail. My original point was, once the cops are TOTALLY 100% NEUTERED of their ability to enforce laws and stop the rioting, the citizens are going to have to get off their butts and into the streets. Of course I wouldn't put it past these crooked politicians to actually enforce "their law" against opposing citizens to the riots.


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Re: "militias"

#12

Post by crazy2medic » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:42 pm

Wish about 5 or 6 thousand armed citizens would start not only dealing with the rioters but also include the governor and D.A. in a sweep to put things right!
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Re: "militias"

#13

Post by mrvmax » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:55 pm

I disagree, I don’t think the police need reform. I think the things we’ve seen are the minority and without 24/7 media trying to get the highest ratings we wouldn’t even know about those. If the police where you live need reformed I suggest you move.

Civil war will not fix the problems, it will only cause more unnecessary death. You may be willing to give up your life in an attempt to “fix” things but I don’t think that’s your best option.

Am I going to stand by if they went through my neighborhood looting and burning? Probably not but I’m pretty confident my local police are not going to let it get to that point. I’m pretty sure if they got overwhelmed by numbers there would be plenty of my neighbors stepping in to back them up.

We’ve got a country that can come together when things like 911 happen. What we really need are leaders who are more concerned about getting us united again than they are getting re-elected or increasing their bank accounts.

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Re: "militias"

#14

Post by Beiruty » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:31 pm

Odinvalknir wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:13 pm
Beiruty wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:57 pm
You can do what Texas Law allows under sections of defense of self, others, and property.

Enforcing the law is not the job of the Citizens or the militia. LEO chiefs has to deputize Citizens to increase the number of his force under his command.

You would have to consult an expert constitutional lawyer in case of no Sherrif or Chief LEO in town
..
Right I agree with all of that. However my point may have gotten lost. In these cities that are currently burning, the mayors and Governors have taken ALL of the power and ability of LE to do ANYTHING. Day after day I see, watch, and read stories how these governors are outlawing the use of effective crowd control tools. In chicago, portland, kenosha, milwaukee, etc the cops have been told they CANNOT use batons, gas, pepper balls, shields, or LRAD. Furthermore, the local DAs are refusing to actually prosecute anyone who gets arrested. The cops pick em up, the DA and judges let them go on no bail. My original point was, once the cops are TOTALLY 100% NEUTERED of their ability to enforce laws and stop the rioting, the citizens are going to have to get off their butts and into the streets. Of course I wouldn't put it past these crooked politicians to actually enforce "their law" against opposing citizens to the riots.
1) Sue the city leaders for refusing to enforce the law willingly
2) Protect yourself and loved ones and your property
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Re: "militias"

#15

Post by srothstein » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:50 pm

mrvmax wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:55 pm
I disagree, I don’t think the police need reform. I think the things we’ve seen are the minority and without 24/7 media trying to get the highest ratings we wouldn’t even know about those. If the police where you live need reformed I suggest you move.
I agree that the events making the news are a definite minority and are amplified by a ratings driven mass media with an agenda to help a specific political cause. But even with that, I think the police do need some reform. There are things I saw as a police officer that should never be allowed. One reason the police have lost some faith with the public is that they can be their own worst enemy. They do things like run patrol cars with no markings or with markings that are the same color as the patrol car's paint. Police go to mental health calls without help from trained mental health specialists. They use the SWAT team and No-Knock warrants way more than is justified IMO. Citizens have lost their lives because of a lot of this this and it could have been avoided.

The police need to have some reform, though not nearly as much as the protesters are saying. They need more money, not less, so that we can get better officers (quality always costs money) and more people to handle the various situations. They need to get out of their patrol cars more and walk in the neighborhoods and meet and talk with the people, they need to be part of the community.

And of course, even more than the police, the laws need to be reformed and a lot of them repealed.
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