The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

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THE ENGINEER
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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#46

Post by THE ENGINEER » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:33 pm

If you are someone who truly believes the election was “stolen” or otherwise compromised to a leveled that flipped the election outcome, what exactly would it take to convince you that no coordinated large scale illegal activity occurred? Are you unable to be convinced if anything other than Trump being elected to a second term is the outcome. I get that there are reports of voter fraud and compromised software on the internet. There are also reports of the earth being flat, plans for perpetual motion machines, you can even find videos of how to unlock your car door using a tennis ball. The internet is a smorgasbord where you will find anything you want if you search for it. For every truth you can find something contradictory with a group of followers. Just because there’s a website doesn’t mean it’s true. So far nothing substantial backed by evidence has been brought before a judge. Personally, I believe the election results are what they are and any illegal or coordinated fraudulent activity that may have occurred was at such a low level that it was inconsequential to the outcome and probably on par with many prior elections.


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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#47

Post by flechero » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:56 pm

THE ENGINEER wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:33 pm
If you are someone who truly believes the election was “stolen” or otherwise compromised to a leveled that flipped the election outcome, what exactly would it take to convince you that no coordinated large scale illegal activity occurred? Are you unable to be convinced if anything other than Trump being elected to a second term is the outcome. I get that there are reports of voter fraud and compromised software on the internet. There are also reports of the earth being flat, plans for perpetual motion machines, you can even find videos of how to unlock your car door using a tennis ball. The internet is a smorgasbord where you will find anything you want if you search for it. For every truth you can find something contradictory with a group of followers. Just because there’s a website doesn’t mean it’s true. So far nothing substantial backed by evidence has been brought before a judge. Personally, I believe the election results are what they are and any illegal or coordinated fraudulent activity that may have occurred was at such a low level that it was inconsequential to the outcome and probably on par with many prior elections.
Well, what would it take for you to consider that there was substantial "questionable" activity that warrants another look?

You can believe what cnn says or you can believe sworn statements from those looking at actual discrepancies on the ground. I don't know if it's enough to change things but in my own household, we were mailed a ballot for my dead father in law and a current voter registration for the lady that used to live in my house before she died 15 YEARS AGO. Ironically both historical dems... no cards or ballots for the R's who have gone before us.

That's 2 potential votes in a single household... my statistical sample of 1 house. Extrapolate that out by 100 million and there certainly could be enough to throw it, easily, especially when you look at the other types of complaints as well.

I'm ok if Trump loses a fair election and will accept it, but from what I have personally seen, it's not been fair so far. I'd like another election all on paper with voter ID required... I bet it would be a trump win without many close calls. :tiphat:


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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#48

Post by THE ENGINEER » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:21 pm

Show me the court cases where evidence has been presented to a court and accepted by a judge as relevant and I’d certainly believe it warrants digging deeper. Up to this point there’s been nothing substantial.

Regarding you receiving two ballots for ineligible voters, I don’t doubt that happened to others as well. However most folks regardless of their political affiliation would not attempt to send in a fraudulent ballot. Most would return them to the post office or toss em in the trash. Again, nothing would occur that rises to a level that changes the outcome. Republicans and Democrats had the same voting options available to them for each county. The playing field was level. The Republican coach gave his players different orders than the Democratic coach so the approaches to voting were predominantly in person for Trump and by mail for Biden. I think Trump did himself a disservice that hurt him by not encouraging his supporters to vote by any legal means possible, rather than discouraging mail in ballots.

What have you personally seen that indicates this was an unfair election? Show solid evidence, not links to obscure websites or Twitter and Facebook comments. People can say whatever they want online, in court it takes real evidence to support a claim.

In general I avoid political or religious discussions because they are unproductive. Each side usually has a charter to convince others they are right so it ends in a stalemate. Yet for some reason I am curious what drives such differing opinions on this election.
Last edited by THE ENGINEER on Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#49

Post by parabelum » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:27 pm

“Accepted” by what judge? "rlol"

I had this looong reply to your frankly nonsensical post but honestly for folks like you, it just ain’t worth. No offense. :cheers2:
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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#50

Post by srothstein » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:08 am

THE ENGINEER wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:21 pm
Show me the court cases where evidence has been presented to a court and accepted by a judge as relevant and I’d certainly believe it warrants digging deeper. Up to this point there’s been nothing substantial.
From this statement, I believe you are answering the reverse question you asked in your earlier post. You asked what it would take to convince someone truly believes the election was stolen that it was actually an honest and fair election. The obvious reverse question is what would it take to convince someone who believes it was an honest and fair election (you, in my opinion) that there really was voter fraud and that it was enough to flip the results of the election.

I don't think you could convince me it was honest and fair, based on the history of elections in the US combined with the reported "glitches" that have been found and corrected. Your statement asks for evidence that was accepted by a judge as relevant and that misses two significant parts of the process. The first part that you seem to be missing is that the evidence is not always proof of the direct fraud, but the blocking of observation that allows for the fraud to occur. The second part of the process is called discovery and requires the lawsuit to be allowed to proceed. Then we could get into the actual software used that has already been acknowledged to move votes between parties. That is how you get the evidence to prove fraud in any civil trial.

If you truly believe that election fraud is not occurring in the US, I suggest you study US election history. The two most common historical frauds have been the dead people voting and the extra ballot box found at the last minute. Especially in Texas, these last two have been common, and I refer you to LBJ's first election as a US Senator as one example. Other common methods of fraud have been coercion in voting (either to force people to vote one way or to not vote) and bribery (paying people for their votes). For a non-Texas example of historical election fraud in the US, I refer you to the Tammany Hall scandals and Boss Tweed in the 1850's.

I think anyone who believes that US elections are fair and honest at anything above the local level in small towns has been keeping their head in the sand. And by that, I am only referring to the illegal frauds, not the legal stuff and dirty politics, which even permeate small town politics.
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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#51

Post by Paladin » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:20 am

I've worked elections, and have met people like Catherine Engelbrecht and others who have worked elections longer:

truethevote.org:
Election law experts have long held that the margin of election fraud is 3 – 5%. Nearly 25% of elections are decided by less than 2%. Most campaigns do not have election integrity programs. These statistics do not bode well for free and fair elections. If third-party groups do not engage, there is no doubt strategically important races will be targeted for subversion; ineligible voters will be more likely to vote and invalid votes will more likely be counted.

Radicalized leftist organizations are hard at work exploiting the weaknesses of our electoral process: Actively promoting the registration and mobilization of unqualified voters, harvesting mail-in ballots that have been fraudulently collected, lobbying for same day voter registration, no voter ID requirements, and non-citizen voting – and engaging in outright data manipulation.

Additionally, we face new enemies in the form of social media monoliths like Twitter and Facebook, who have announced intentions to actively push their political agendas, which will lead to the silencing of conservative voices and the suppression of voter engagement.
I don't know the date, but in Texas the Republican party only started winning when the ballot boxes started being locked.

Big Tech has also been shown to be a big problem: Dr. Robert Epstein: Study claims Google reflected 'very dramatic bias' in 2016 election search results
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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#52

Post by mayor » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:27 am

There are sworn affidavits that vote fraud occurred. Not just invalid votes but that the software was compromised. That should trigger a full audit to determine the truth. I'm a software engineer and have not trusted electronic voting machines that don't produce a paper trail since their introduction. President Trump is allowed by law to contest the results. I, for one will back him until the matter is resolved.
And it seems to me that if the election was on the up and up, everyone would welcome at least a recount.
Look up the battle of Athens in 1946.


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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#53

Post by parabelum » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:34 am

mayor wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:27 am
There are sworn affidavits that vote fraud occurred. Not just invalid votes but that the software was compromised. That should trigger a full audit to determine the truth. I'm a software engineer and have not trusted electronic voting machines that don't produce a paper trail since their introduction. President Trump is allowed by law to contest the results. I, for one will back him until the matter is resolved.
And it seems to me that if the election was on the up and up, everyone would welcome at least a recount.
Look up the battle of Athens in 1946.
I work full time as an cybersecurity engineer for the top Fortune 500 company where we get to play with the bleeding edge solutions. Having been a red teamer / pen tester I can also tell you that if I was given the permission and if it were legal to perform a pen test on this system, it wouldn’t be too difficult to jam it up. It is by design porous.
The only way to keep the system “honest” is to have an audit trail that is not electronic. I understand the paradox here but engineers who work on these systems, either in the Cyber or the Infrastructure side are human beings and they will have agendas as we all do, and it is just too darn easy to sabotage it.
In Latin terms, quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#54

Post by Ruark » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:39 am

Myself... I'm still waiting for the freaking Kraken....
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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#55

Post by parabelum » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:24 pm

Ruark wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:39 am
Myself... I'm still waiting for the freaking Kraken....
Are you watching the coverage on Fox now with Sidney and Rudy :shock:
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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#56

Post by AndyC » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:45 pm

Remember Kitty Genovese

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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#57

Post by philip964 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:53 pm

Thought it was pretty good.

If it’s all true people need to go to jail. Will the FBI investigate?


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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#58

Post by parabelum » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:55 pm

philip964 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:53 pm
Thought it was pretty good.

If it’s all true people need to go to jail. Will the FBI investigate?
The part when Rudy was looking under the podium etc for FBI... "rlol"
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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#59

Post by powerboatr » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:04 pm

AndyC wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:45 pm
well, i watched the whole thing and when sydney spoke and mentioned the name of the software in various forms, i did get chills and went and locked the front door.

she mentioned software used to thwart elections in other countries. hmm i worked for a government contractor that did just that at behest of our government. ( i wont say what department, but it rhymes like with date. ) But in 2005 the companies actions got "found-out" by congress ( I suspect an competitor, bent a few ears) and it cost the company many years of gov contracts and we all had to watch 8 painful hours of how its wrong to influence or control elections in foreign lands by U.S. companies . my office and area had zip to do with it, but all 60k plus employees had to watch the video, it was bad.
when she outlined and hinted at what other places "may" have been victims . it gave me serious concern.

i have no doubt what she said is true and never thought our country would have been subjected to such a horrible sneaky crime. I sure pray this time people go to gitmo or firing squad. everyone involved if proved to be true.
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Re: The Stolen Election, Part One: AMERICAN PRAVDA

#60

Post by Paladin » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:05 pm

AndyC wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:45 pm
Must see press conference. Agree with Rudy about the FBI. They need to be replaced if they can't do their job.
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