Alternate Comms

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RSX11
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Re: Alternate Comms

#31

Post by RSX11 »

A good alternate form of communications would be UUCP. UUCP was used to distribute email and USENET newsgroups between computer systems long before the Internet existed. It is completely decentralized and would be very hard to shut down.

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Re: Alternate Comms

#32

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Has anyone actually threatened to shut down ham radios, or is this all hypothetical?
I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, nor should anything I say be taken as legal advice. If it is important that any information be accurate, do not use me as the only source.

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Re: Alternate Comms

#33

Post by 2farnorth »

Dave2 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:25 am Has anyone actually threatened to shut down ham radios, or is this all hypothetical?
No , so far it's not mentioned. But in the discussion of alternate comms we have to consider the possibility. Most of the politicians have no idea about ham radio. Ignoring real problems and knee jerk reactions to non existent problems are their forte'. In watching current events one has to wonder how long it will take. All it will take is some bozos utilizing radios to coordinate a perceived nefarious event to get that knee jerk.
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Grayling813
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Re: Alternate Comms

#34

Post by Grayling813 »

Another encrypted email option
https://tutanota.com/
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Paladin
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Re: Alternate Comms

#35

Post by Paladin »

Dave2 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:25 am Has anyone actually threatened to shut down ham radios, or is this all hypothetical?
There are actually legal workarounds even if they did. Per international agreements, if you have dual citizenship and a listed foreign amateur radio license, the US has to let you use it here:

Operation in the US by Foreign Amateurs

Truthfully, even the Soviet Union had ham operators. Its how the Soviet's got contact with the outside world.
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chamberc
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Re: Alternate Comms

#36

Post by chamberc »

Paladin wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:24 am
Dave2 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:25 am Has anyone actually threatened to shut down ham radios, or is this all hypothetical?
There are actually legal workarounds even if they did. Per international agreements, if you have dual citizenship and a listed foreign amateur radio license, the US has to let you use it here:

Operation in the US by Foreign Amateurs

Truthfully, even the Soviet Union had ham operators. Its how the Soviet's got contact with the outside world.
They can track down any stationary HAM user any time they want pretty easily... fox and hound exercises show it doesn't take much. You operate at their pleasure. Same goes for any technology even E2E encrypted...
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Paladin
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Re: Alternate Comms

#37

Post by Paladin »

chamberc wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:33 am
Paladin wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:24 am
Dave2 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:25 am Has anyone actually threatened to shut down ham radios, or is this all hypothetical?
There are actually legal workarounds even if they did. Per international agreements, if you have dual citizenship and a listed foreign amateur radio license, the US has to let you use it here:

Operation in the US by Foreign Amateurs

Truthfully, even the Soviet Union had ham operators. Its how the Soviet's got contact with the outside world.
They can track down any stationary HAM user any time they want pretty easily... fox and hound exercises show it doesn't take much. You operate at their pleasure. Same goes for any technology even E2E encrypted...
Just FYI, handheld's with low wattage UHF and intermittent transmissions are more difficult to locate/intercept (i.e. FRS radios). You won't be talking to a lot of people with those.
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Re: Alternate Comms

#38

Post by 2farnorth »

Paladin wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:24 am
Dave2 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:25 am Has anyone actually threatened to shut down ham radios, or is this all hypothetical?
There are actually legal workarounds even if they did. Per international agreements, if you have dual citizenship and a listed foreign amateur radio license, the US has to let you use it here:

Operation in the US by Foreign Amateurs

Truthfully, even the Soviet Union had ham operators. Its how the Soviet's got contact with the outside world.
I can guarantee you that those licensed operators had to be members of the communist party and in very good standing with political leadership. Comparatively to the US they were very few in number.

Side note: When I was in the Air Force with a high security clearance I was required to report all/each radio contacts with Soviets and Eastern Bloc countries to my local OSI office.
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Re: Alternate Comms

#39

Post by 2farnorth »

chamberc wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:33 am
Paladin wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:24 am
Dave2 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:25 am Has anyone actually threatened to shut down ham radios, or is this all hypothetical?
There are actually legal workarounds even if they did. Per international agreements, if you have dual citizenship and a listed foreign amateur radio license, the US has to let you use it here:

Operation in the US by Foreign Amateurs

Truthfully, even the Soviet Union had ham operators. Its how the Soviet's got contact with the outside world.
They can track down any stationary HAM user any time they want pretty easily... fox and hound exercises show it doesn't take much. You operate at their pleasure. Same goes for any technology even E2E encrypted...
With satellite technology a transmitter can be pin pointed in seconds if they wish. Radar (another form of radio) emitters are pin pointed from aircraft all the time. A single ham operator with a mobile very directional antenna would need several minutes to triangulate a general vicinity of a local transmitter if it was continually or regularly transmitting. Cell phone towers locate the general vicinity of phones continually.

I know all this stretching the original topic of alternate coms, but if anyone is planning on these things they need to know all the details. There are faults in all systems. Runners/messengers are slow, mail is unreliable, smoke signals, flashlight morse code, and flags have be in visual range. Where does it end?
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chamberc
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Re: Alternate Comms

#40

Post by chamberc »

2farnorth wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:01 am
chamberc wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:33 am
Paladin wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:24 am
Dave2 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:25 am Has anyone actually threatened to shut down ham radios, or is this all hypothetical?
There are actually legal workarounds even if they did. Per international agreements, if you have dual citizenship and a listed foreign amateur radio license, the US has to let you use it here:

Operation in the US by Foreign Amateurs

Truthfully, even the Soviet Union had ham operators. Its how the Soviet's got contact with the outside world.
They can track down any stationary HAM user any time they want pretty easily... fox and hound exercises show it doesn't take much. You operate at their pleasure. Same goes for any technology even E2E encrypted...
With satellite technology a transmitter can be pin pointed in seconds if they wish. Radar (another form of radio) emitters are pin pointed from aircraft all the time. A single ham operator with a mobile very directional antenna would need several minutes to triangulate a general vicinity of a local transmitter if it was continually or regularly transmitting. Cell phone towers locate the general vicinity of phones continually.

I know all this stretching the original topic of alternate coms, but if anyone is planning on these things they need to know all the details. There are faults in all systems. Runners/messengers are slow, mail is unreliable, smoke signals, flashlight morse code, and flags have be in visual range. Where does it end?
Exactly. Nothing is perfect or fool-proof.
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Grayling813
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Re: Alternate Comms

#41

Post by Grayling813 »

chamberc wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:09 am
2farnorth wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:01 am
chamberc wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:33 am
Paladin wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:24 am
Dave2 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:25 am Has anyone actually threatened to shut down ham radios, or is this all hypothetical?
There are actually legal workarounds even if they did. Per international agreements, if you have dual citizenship and a listed foreign amateur radio license, the US has to let you use it here:

Operation in the US by Foreign Amateurs

Truthfully, even the Soviet Union had ham operators. Its how the Soviet's got contact with the outside world.
They can track down any stationary HAM user any time they want pretty easily... fox and hound exercises show it doesn't take much. You operate at their pleasure. Same goes for any technology even E2E encrypted...
With satellite technology a transmitter can be pin pointed in seconds if they wish. Radar (another form of radio) emitters are pin pointed from aircraft all the time. A single ham operator with a mobile very directional antenna would need several minutes to triangulate a general vicinity of a local transmitter if it was continually or regularly transmitting. Cell phone towers locate the general vicinity of phones continually.

I know all this stretching the original topic of alternate coms, but if anyone is planning on these things they need to know all the details. There are faults in all systems. Runners/messengers are slow, mail is unreliable, smoke signals, flashlight morse code, and flags have be in visual range. Where does it end?
Exactly. Nothing is perfect or fool-proof.
:iagree: Good reasons to have close knit group that can communicate face to face.
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Frankie
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Re: Alternate Comms

#42

Post by Frankie »

Just got my GMRS license (day before the fee reduction announcement :roll: ) and a couple Wouxon 805G handhelds.
Learning all about repeaters and using them.
Next will be a Wouxon 1000g as it will allow me to monitor the GMRS and well as other bands at the same time. I know can’t transmit off the GMRS freq but I can hear someone message being broadcast.
Also looking at the Retevis RT97 portable repeater for the camper.
No way I will get the wife and daughter to get a Ham ticket so I figure this was my best option for now since we all can use my license.
Last edited by Frankie on Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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johncanfield
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Re: Alternate Comms

#43

Post by johncanfield »

RSX11 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:14 pm A good alternate form of communications would be UUCP. UUCP was used to distribute email and USENET newsgroups between computer systems long before the Internet existed. It is completely decentralized and would be very hard to shut down.
Oh my goodness - haven't heard that in a long time - Unix to Unix Copy.

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Re: Alternate Comms

#44

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

Dave2 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:25 am Has anyone actually threatened to shut down ham radios, or is this all hypothetical?
You are asking two separate and distinct questions. Let me answer each of them.

1. No - I do not believe that anyone with authority has threatened to shut down HAM radio communications recently.

2. No - this discussion is definitely not "all hypothetical", given that the powers that be have been shutting down the use of the most common forms of communication for political discussion they disagree with. I do not see any reason to believe that they will stop at Social Media (and now YouTube), and I believe it is entirely possible that this quest to silence opposing viewpoints will continue to all forms of communication including HAM radio.
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Re: Alternate Comms

#45

Post by Liberty »

2farnorth wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:35 am The Feds can eliminate legal Amateur Radio any time they want too. All it would take is an edict from Biden/Harris. Just like Hitler did. There is no constitutional protection for us. But anyway, the constitution doesn't matter anymore to the usurpers. It's being stomped on every day.

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