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BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:06 pm
by AndyC

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:26 pm
by cyphertext
I've never liked those... I don't believe your finger should be inside the trigger guard until ready to fire.

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:28 pm
by apostate
Thanks for posting this Andy. Perhaps I'm a fuddy-duddy but that proximity to the trigger is what always bothered me about these gadgets. I appreciate him seeing the ND as a teachable moment.

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:57 pm
by AndyC
I've already had one person yell that it's shooter error, not the gear's fault. Well, duh - of course it's shooter-error; however, MY issue with it is that the gear - just like certain holsters and flashlights - makes it too darn unforgiving if one makes the slightest mistake in placement, and I'm not willing to bet lives on it under stress.

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:10 pm
by carlson1
I use the Phase 5 on all of my AR’s. I have been thinking about this a lot lately and now I know I will change it back to stock. Thanks Andy for posting this video.

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:12 pm
by Bitter Clinger
I had them on my carbines, took them off after experiencing some of the same issues that this article highlights:

http://vsomedia.org/b-a-d-lever-worst-m ... duct-ever/

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:34 pm
by AndyC
I've never used them because I don't want anything other than the trigger and my finger inside the boom-room.

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:14 pm
by The Annoyed Man
I never put one on any of my ARs. In similar vein, I always felt a little dicey about having to put my finger in the trigger guard to take off the safety on my M1A. It forced me to be very careful and take my time when doing it.

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:21 am
by C-dub
My BIL has put one on his AR and says he likes it. I could never get past it for the same reasons ya'll have kept from getting one or stopped and never got one for myself. Too close for comfort. I keep my carbine next to my bed. The circumstances where it would come into play are too risky for the small "convenience" on a bench at the range for my taste.

My BIL keeps his in his safe, not next to his bed.

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:00 am
by troglodyte
I appreciate him owning up to it and making a change instead of an excuse.

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:58 am
by oljames3
troglodyte wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:00 am
I appreciate him owning up to it and making a change instead of an excuse.
:iagree: This is how we learn. This guy stood up, owned his issues, and explained the situation so that others could profit from his mistakes. This particular issue, having ANYTHING inside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire, applies to pistols as well as rifles. I'm training my young shooters to keep their trigger finger in one specific spot, well away from the trigger, when drawing and to only move their trigger finger to the trigger when the pistol is pointed at the target and they have decided to shoot.

I will have to admit that I had never heard of such a bolt release device as this. When he demonstrated the process, I felt a visceral reaction. It was scary. I have only recently entered competition, having completed three matches. Muzzle direction is tightly monitored during a match, but that did not prevent this ND.

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:51 am
by flechero
oljames3 wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:58 am
Muzzle direction is tightly monitored during a match, but that did not prevent this ND.
The ND, no; but this event illustrates that it takes multiple rules violations to cause injury/death/etc. Luckily, a single violation can be used as a teaching incident...

Be safe out there!

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:36 am
by Soccerdad1995
C-dub wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:21 am
My BIL has put one on his AR and says he likes it. I could never get past it for the same reasons ya'll have kept from getting one or stopped and never got one for myself. Too close for comfort. I keep my carbine next to my bed. The circumstances where it would come into play are too risky for the small "convenience" on a bench at the range for my taste.

My BIL keeps his in his safe, not next to his bed.
I'm not sure I'm following the concern for this specific application. The ND issue seems to be there when you are reloading. Assuming that you keep your bedside gun loaded, this would only happen if you need to fire the 32nd round of an encounter, which seems unlikely in most HD scenarios. For the first shot your finger would be out of the trigger guard completely until you are ready to shoot. Of course, for the same reason, this device would also not have much benefit in a HD scenario.

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to follow your concern here.

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:05 pm
by MadMonkey
I have a few of these.

I'm completely against things like Serpa holsters that require a press with the trigger finger to release. I have my own experience with that and nothing will change my mind (no ND, but I was instantly converted on my thinking about it).

The BAD lever, on the other hand, is designed to swept downward to release the bolt. That's why it has texturing on the top and bottom, not on the side. The finger should never enter the trigger guard during proper use. It should not ever be used like a magazine release button. (EDIT: it is claimed that Serpas are meant to be operated in the same way, but due to differences in handgun design, some do and some do not)

THAT BEING SAID.

Every AR is slightly different, even milspec ones. Every person is different. Every bolt catch may not be exactly the same. People have different length fingers. Tolerances may be different from gun to gun. A part that works great in 95% of ARs might cause failures in specific models.

If you're going to use a part like this, make absolutely sure that it works for you, and don't install it based on someone else's experience.

In some guns, a BAD lever can cause the bolt to lock back before the mag is empty, or even drop the bolt during a reload.

Some people have shorter fingers, and using a BAD lever can cause their finger to float above the trigger guard... under stress, it's easy for that finger to snap back to the trigger.

Some people have large fingers, and the BAD lever crowds the area in the trigger guard and is uncomfortable (same with gloves, especially in winter).

Etc.

None of the above have been a problem for me through thousands of rounds. That doesn't mean someone else might not have issues.

I've gone back and forth on them several times. Partly because I like keeping my controls as simple and close to stock as possible, but I currently can't live without 60 degree ambi selectors, so if I'm already modifying I might as well keep 'em ;-)

Also, there are alternatives, like the Smith Tactics Battle Bar, which is closer to pistol controls:

Image

Image

Or the Redi Catch, which allows you to use the actual magazine release to lock the bolt back:

Image

I'm going to test both of these in the future, most likely. Speaking of which, if you change a part in your gun, USE IT and make sure that it works. I'm not comfortable having an HD gun with untested parts.

Re: BAD lever type gadgets:

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:19 pm
by AndyC
I don't like things that require perfect manipulation to use safely; particularly not when it comes to the trigger-finger or inside the trigger-guard, and especially not when they're things which are expected to be run FAST and under pressure.

Nope - I ain't doing it. I don't see anyone making these for semi-auto pistols, nor do I see anyone claiming we need something like this to close the slide on a pistol faster than we currently do.