Support 2011 HB86 - Campus Carry

[BrianSW99]

For a while now, certain hospitals and churches have been saying they don't have to post 30.06 signs because they're also schools. If HB86 passes, will they have to comply (parking lot & policies) because they're schools? It seems only fair.

HB86 and the others like it only apply to higher education. I'm not sure how that will affect teaching hospitals. K-12 will still be off limits, so I would think that would also be the case with accredited church based private schools too.

[oldtexan]

I just got an alert from Texas Legislature Online (TLO) that HB86 was referred today to the Homeland Security and Public Safety Committee.

My representative, Sid Miller, chairs this committee. Rep. Driver, the author of HB 750, is a member of this committee. Three co-authors of HB 750 sit on this committee: Chairman Miller, Vice Chairman Allen Fletcher, and Rep. Dan Flynn.

TLO is not showing that HB 750 has yet been referred to a committee.

HB 86 has no co-authors or sponsors, and its author, Rep. Simpson, does not sit on this committee.

[NorthTexas]

Note that HB750 uses the following language; "concerning the storage of handguns in dormitories. . . " This is not all residential housing.

Thank you for the clarification Mr. Cotton, I did not pick up on that difference between the bills. This makes me happy!

[firefighter3217]

So, pardon me for being a little out of the loop here, but if one of these campus carry bills passes, when might that me? Also, from the day it passes, how long until it has the force of law? I'm particularly interested in this one as I'm a college student myself... One of the supposed few 21-year old CHL holders... And I wanna carry to class!

[terryg]

If a campus carry bill passes, it would most likely take effect September 1.

[Douva]

So, pardon me for being a little out of the loop here, but if one of these campus carry bills passes, when might that me? Also, from the day it passes, how long until it has the force of law? I'm particularly interested in this one as I'm a college student myself... One of the supposed few 21-year old CHL holders... And I wanna carry to class!

It will be September 1, 2011, or September 1, 2012, depending on which version (HB 750 or SB 354, respectively) passes.

[firefighter3217]

So, pardon me for being a little out of the loop here, but if one of these campus carry bills passes, when might that me? Also, from the day it passes, how long until it has the force of law? I'm particularly interested in this one as I'm a college student myself... One of the supposed few 21-year old CHL holders... And I wanna carry to class!

It will be September 1, 2011, or September 1, 2012, depending on which version (HB 750 or SB 354, respectively) passes.

Cool. Thanks. So lets all hope that one passes!!!

[AJ80]

So whichever one passes, I can expect to be legally able to carry on campus on September 1st 2011, correct?

Maybe I should go back for my Masters...

[Keith B]

So whichever one passes, I can expect to be legally able to carry on campus on September 1st 2011, correct?

Maybe I should go back for my Masters...

No. If HB 750 passes you can carry as of September 1, 2011, but if SB 354 passes it will not go into effect until September 1, 2012.

[Cobra Medic]

You want it to be different. I want schools treated the same as hospitals and shopping malls.

We want schools to be treated differently than hospitals and shopping malls. "We" being a large majority of the Texas House and Senate, the majority of gun owners I've spoken with, the NRA, TSRA, TFC. You're the only person I've seen that didn't want protection for the students and employees.

Chas.

I spoke with a lot of coworkers during the past week and WE want schools treated the same as hospitals and shopping malls. We want equal protection under the law instead of special treatment for special interest groups. Thanks to the conversations you inspired, several said they will contact their legislators and make their desires clear. Some of my coworkers are also NRA and/or TSRA members and none of us remembers being asked what we want as legislative priorities. Some may even mention that lwhen they contact their legislators.

You snide remark is just silly because I do want "protection for the students and employees" but I want the same protection for doctors and nurses and medtechs and patients at hospitals, and I want the same protection for shoppers and retail clerks, and factory workers, and waiters and waitresses and diners, and everyone who can legally have a firearm. What I oppose is a law that gives special treatment for students and employees but denies equal protection under the law to the rest of us.

[Charles L. Cotton]

You want it to be different. I want schools treated the same as hospitals and shopping malls.

We want schools to be treated differently than hospitals and shopping malls. "We" being a large majority of the Texas House and Senate, the majority of gun owners I've spoken with, the NRA, TSRA, TFC. You're the only person I've seen that didn't want protection for the students and employees.

Chas.

I spoke with a lot of coworkers during the past week and WE want schools treated the same as hospitals and shopping malls. We want equal protection under the law instead of special treatment for special interest groups. Thanks to the conversations you inspired, several said they will contact their legislators and make their desires clear. Some of my coworkers are also NRA and/or TSRA members and none of us remembers being asked what we want as legislative priorities. Some may even mention that lwhen they contact their legislators.

You snide remark is just silly because I do want "protection for the students and employees" but I want the same protection for doctors and nurses and medtechs and patients at hospitals, and I want the same protection for shoppers and retail clerks, and factory workers, and waiters and waitresses and diners, and everyone who can legally have a firearm. What I oppose is a law that gives special treatment for students and employees but denies equal protection under the law to the rest of us.

I wasn't a snide remark at all and I think you know it. Your first post indicated that you only want carrying on campus decriminalized without any protection afforded to employees and students in terms of not being fired or expelled. Your argument was that it would put schools on the same footing as other businesses. I correctly pointed out that the campus carry bills were not written that way because those who support campus-carry want the additional protection.

You need to do some research on "equal protection under the law" before you start throwing that phrase around. It has absolutely nothing to do with this topic or the pending bills. Different business entities, industries, and people are treated differently in many aspects and doing so does not violate the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Without protection for employees and students, a campus-carry bill would be all show and no substance. What you propose would keep people out of jail, but it wouldn't help them stay employed or in school. They would still be faced with the choice of being able to defend themselves, or being able to get an education and/or feeding their families. You will correctly argue this is the situation many employees face now, but that is shortsighted for a number of reasons. First, we simply can't pass a bill that would allow every single employee to carry a gun inside their employer's buildings. (I suspect you would oppose that anyway.) Secondly, campuses are the focus of criminal activity that puts life at risk more so than any employer's property with very few exceptions. Criminals know students and university employees are unarmed; they have no such assurance with private employees.

You claim you do want "protection for students and employees" but that you want the same protection for everyone who can legally carry a gun. That sounds great, but when you get past the rhetoric it's a hollow claim, because you know we could never pass such a bill. Your "all or nothing" approach would leave us where we were in 1994 when we couldn't carry a defensive handgun anywhere, with very few exceptions. Nor would we have unlicensed car-carry. Do you oppose the current campus-carry bills as they are filed?

I don't know if your reference to your co-workers was intended as a threat, but if so, you missed the mark. I'm not the least bit concerned that you will be able to derail the campus-carry bills.

Chas.

[tacticool]

For a while now, certain hospitals and churches have been saying they don't have to post 30.06 signs because they're also schools. If HB86 passes, will they have to comply (parking lot & policies) because they're schools? It seems only fair.

HB86 and the others like it only apply to higher education. I'm not sure how that will affect teaching hospitals. K-12 will still be off limits, so I would think that would also be the case with accredited church based private schools too.

Thanks for the clarification. I think it would be great if the teaching hospitals and other (not K-12) institutions that have been claiming school status would fall under whatever Campus Carry bill passes.

IANAL but it looks like most medical schools would fall under HB86 but The University of Phoenix is a for-profit institution of higher learning so it would be exempt.


Education Code, Sec. 61.003. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(8) "Institution of higher education" means any public technical institute, public junior college, public senior college or university, medical or dental unit, public state college, or other agency of higher education as defined in this section.

(15) "Private or independent institution of higher education" includes only a private or independent college or university that is:
(A) organized under the Texas Non-Profit Corporation Act (Article 1396-1.01 et seq., Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes);
(B) exempt from taxation under Article VIII, Section 2, of the Texas Constitution and Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (26 U.S.C. Section 501); and
(C) accredited by:
(i) the Commission on Colleges of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools;
(ii) the Liaison Committee on Medical Education; or
(iii) the American Bar Association.

[CJD]

Why does SB354 not take effect until 2012? That seems counterproductive, if we're trying to protect students as soon as possible. What's the reason for waiting another year?

[BrianSW99]

Why does SB354 not take effect until 2012? That seems counterproductive, if we're trying to protect students as soon as possible. What's the reason for waiting another year?

To give the universities time to beef up their police forces to handle all the shootouts they're not going to have!

I don't what the actual reason is, but they likely thought it would have a better chance of passing with the extended date. Maybe it was required to gain the vote of one or more of the senators?

[Ameer]

Why does SB354 not take effect until 2012? That seems counterproductive, if we're trying to protect students as soon as possible. What's the reason for waiting another year?

To give the universities time to beef up their police forces to handle all the shootouts they're not going to have!

I don't what the actual reason is, but they likely thought it would have a better chance of passing with the extended date. Maybe it was required to gain the vote of one or more of the senators?

It could also be intended to give universities time to change their rules and policies to comply with the law. I prefer a 2011 effective date but nobody in Austin asked me.