Arlington Tx Officer seizes CHL holders gun

[baseballguy2001]

In what I can only call an illegal seizure, an Arlington, Texas police officer seized a CHL holders weapon because the officer said "she was acting like a vigilante". According to an article in the FW Star-Telegram, a disabled woman Amelia Pickens sees a car that fits the description of a car that hit her daughter. She sees the car pull into a grocery store and three people get out. She pulls in behind the car and calls 911. She never confronted the other people, nor did she get out of her car. When officer Phil Hill arrived on the scene, she explained to him why she called 911. The only time a gun was mentioned was when she showed him her TX DL, and CHL. She didn't brandish her weapon, nor even pull it out of her purse. Officer Hill grabbed her purse and seized the weapon telling her, she 'acted like a vigilante'. That she could get hurt, or be put in a situation that she didn't need to be in. Ms. Pickens says she understand securing the gun for officer safety, but a confiscation shouldn't have happened. She says he explained she could get her weapon at a later date, at the police station. The people in the car were arrested. One for possession of a controlled substance, another for an outstanding warrant out of Johnson County. Ms. Pickens said she spoke with the Officers Hills supervisor who said the officer might need "sympathy training". He says he would have returned her weapon right then. Ms. Pickens filed a complaint, and allegedly internal affairs is investigating. According to the article, Hills' supervisor backed up his officer, saying he had the discretion to seize the weapon. However, he is looking at the complaint but couldn't comment further.

A few questions: Can an officer legally confiscate a weapon in a situation like above? Are IA investigations public property? If the seizure is illegal, what charge would the officer face? I seriously doubt he will face anything, including a slap on the wrist.

In my view, when a uniformed member of the government can confiscate a lawfully owned weapon anytime they please, America, much less Texas is done.

Where am I wrong?

[G.A. Heath]

Texas law allows a peace officer to disarm a CHL holder if they feel it is required for their safety, the safety of the licensee, or the safety of a third party. With that said the same law specifically states that the officer is required to return the weapon at the end of the encounter, no where is there a provision for returning the weapon at a later date.

[Keith B]

This is not going to end well for the officer or the city. I smell a good case law suit coming up.

[texanjoker]

I would like to know what really happened and don't form an opinion on one news story. The article states she pulled in behind the car and called 911. She said she was holding her hand up asking them to hold on. Was she asking or demanding with their car blocked in? Did she tell them she was armed? I would like to hear the 911 recording. Was she calm, excited, out of control? If there is dash cam audio or video I would also like to see that. It could show both of their state of mind. Were there prior incidents over the past few weeks of her blocking in red cars?

According to an email from Tiarra Richard, Arlington police spokeswoman, Hill seized the gun after “speaking with Ms. Pickens and learning more about her actions that included attempting to block in the other vehicle.”

I would like to see under what authority he seized the gun. It is not normal to just seize anybody's property and that is covered under the 4th amendment. The IA will be confidential unless they appeal it to a court or civil service commission. If he is found to have violated a policy and/or law he could be disciplined and/or fired depending on what he did wrong. She is free to file a civil suit alleging a 4th amendment violation of search and seizure.

Pickens pulled in behind the car and called 911. When two men and one woman emerged from the store and got into the car to leave, the woman said she didn’t confront them but only held her hand up, asking them repeatedly to “hold on.”

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/05/22 ... rylink=cpy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[/quote]

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/05/22 ... t-gun.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[baseballguy2001]

@TexanJoker -- I respect your point about forming an opinion, I don't think I have yet. On the other hand, I don't see the relevance of listening to the 911 call. Calm or excited, she did the city a favor -- two scumbags are in jail because she wanted a closer inspection of a car she thought might fit the description of a hit & run. It's my opinion, -- if the article is accurate and correct, Officer Hill saw an older citizen doing his job, (taking the law in her hands) and he thought he would punish her by confiscating her weapon. She didn't do anything illegal, but by showing him her CHL he knew she might have a weapon, and he took it.

[baseballguy2001]

Section 411.207: AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM - (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder.

Based on this -- I think there is a serious breach of law here -- If the article is accurate and correct. The officer would have determined that Ms. Pickens was a threat to him, to herself, or someone else at the scene. Or he determined that she violated another provision of this subchapter, or committed a violation that resulted in her arrest. She wasn't arrested, that much is clear. So, what gives?

[hillfighter]

Crooks are crooks no matter if they're wearing a hoodie, a business suit, or a uniform.

[texanjoker]

@TexanJoker -- I respect your point about forming an opinion, I don't think I have yet. On the other hand, I don't see the relevance of listening to the 911 call. Calm or excited, she did the city a favor -- two scumbags are in jail because she wanted a closer inspection of a car she thought might fit the description of a hit & run. It's my opinion, -- if the article is accurate and correct, Officer Hill saw an older citizen doing his job, (taking the law in her hands) and he thought he would punish her by confiscating her weapon. She didn't do anything illegal, but by showing him her CHL he knew she might have a weapon, and he took it.

If I were doing the internal investigation, and I have done a lot, I would want as much factual evidence as possible. The 911 tape may show her completely out of control ect or calm as a cucumber. Circumstantial, but part of the gathering the facts as to why he may have taken the gun. Those same facts could clear and or sink the officer, depending on what he said. If he lied (I have no place for lying leo's) saying she was out of control, yet calm on the phone, that could discredit his statement. On the other hand if she is saying she was nice and calm, blah blah and no reason to take the gun, and she was a raving lunatic on the phone, that could discredit her statement. She may have been a raving lunatic and he still may be wrong for taking the gun, but I'd collect all the facts and see what they say one way or another. I can see him being 110% wrong for taking the gun and I can also see him taking the gun from a person that is out of control to keep her from doing something stupid. Legal? I can't say w/o more facts, but it is a stretch. However, he may have asked her to take it for safe keeping do to her emotional state and she consented, then later changed her mind. People lie in complaints about the police all the time and audio/video then clears the officer. All things to look at in this bizarre caper.

[jbarn]

Crooks are crooks no matter if they're wearing a hoodie, a business suit, or a uniform.

Or dressed like a disabled mom

[SewTexas]

keep in mind, the gun was still in her purse! if she were out of her mind crazy she would have had it out and would have been using it....I would have been, I'd have thought they were responsible for hurting my daughter, even if she is an adult. From the sounds of the article she was perfectly calm, it was the cop who wasn't.

[RX8er]

I would like to think that there is more to the story than is being published. Wonder if this will be a test case or just settled out of court. Sure sounds like it's headed to the attorneys.

[TxRVer]

Vigilantes don't call 911.

[EEllis]

The woman committed a crime by blocking in the people's car. She did not have the right to do so. That she got lucky and 2 people were arrested for issues totally unrelated to why she blocked them in doesn't really matter. She did not use her gun in doing so but she easily could of been arrested and she wouldn't be having a CHL right now anyways. This was a cheap lesson that I don't think the woman learned. I think the situation may have been that to keep the gun he should of arrested the woman, which he obviously didn't want to, but he felt something needed to be done. If that is the case who here would of made the cop arrest the woman?

[EEllis]

I would like to think that there is more to the story than is being published. Wonder if this will be a test case or just settled out of court. Sure sounds like it's headed to the attorneys.

Why? She has her gun back, was told at the scene how and where to get it and did so within a few days. What kind of monetary award do you think she would get and how much money and time would she go thru before getting it? This is just not that kind of case.

[jmra]

The woman committed a crime by blocking in the people's car. She did not have the right to do so. That she got lucky and 2 people were arrested for issues totally unrelated to why she blocked them in doesn't really matter. She did not use her gun in doing so but she easily could of been arrested and she wouldn't be having a CHL right now anyways. This was a cheap lesson that I don't think the woman learned. I think the situation may have been that to keep the gun he should of arrested the woman, which he obviously didn't want to, but he felt something needed to be done. If that is the case who here would of made the cop arrest the woman?

The woman committed a crime? I didn't realize you were the judge and jury in this case.