buying guns for someone else

[tomneal]

Even if you do the transfer using an FFL

Supreme Court affirms restrictions on buying guns for third party

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06 ... +-+Text%29

[baldeagle]

Yet another 5-4 decision. When will Americans wake up?

[Jumping Frog]

A good example where elections have consequences. The liberal justices rammed it through.

In this particular case, the key issue to remember is "follow the money".

The uncle was paying for the handgun, and the nephew was buying it. Had the nephew bought the gun and gave it as a gift, there would have been no problem.

[cb1000rider]

The uncle was paying for the handgun, and the nephew was buying it. Had the nephew bought the gun and gave it as a gift, there would have been no problem.

Can you make this more clear, legally speaking... I dug and dug and couldn't find a way that you could legally buy a gun for someone else. You've got to essentially break the law by indicating that you're not buying the firearm for someone else.. Is there a "gift" box that I don't know about? (ATF Form 4473)

I know that a gift is not a straw purchase, as there is no money involved.

It appears that the only way to do it is to purchase it for yourself and transfer it through an FFL...

Someone correct me..

[mojo84]

I think there is a distinct difference between buying a gun for someone and buying a gun on someone else's behalf with their money or being reimbursed by them.

[cb1000rider]

That's the straw purchase distinction, absolutely.
There is no "gift" option on Form 4473.

[sjfcontrol]

Writing for the majority, Justice Elena Kagan said the federal government's elaborate system of background checks and record-keeping requirements help law enforcement investigate crimes by tracing guns to their buyers. Those provisions would mean little, she said, if a would-be gun buyer could evade them by simply getting another person to buy the gun and fill out the paperwork.

Nope, no gun registry shenanigans going on thru NICS there... Not a smidgeon!

[sjfcontrol]

That's the straw purchase distinction, absolutely.
There is no "gift" option on Form 4473.

So, how much time (or what other actions) must expire between the time that you buy the gun, and the time when you can sell it to someone else as a private transaction?

[cb1000rider]

I have no idea. There are no "hold it" requirements as far as I know about.
Is there a minimum hold time if you're going to sell it?

[Cjwglock19]

Ok, my dad has been looking to purchase a new pistol. He has had a few things happen and has held off, I have considered purchasing as a gift for his upcoming birthday. If I do this, is there a legal transaction I must do, or do I just gift it to him with all receipts?? I have never purchased a gun as a gift so I want to be sure.

[sjfcontrol]

Ok, my dad has been looking to purchase a new pistol. He has had a few things happen and has held off, I have considered purchasing as a gift for his upcoming birthday. If I do this, is there a legal transaction I must do, or do I just gift it to him with all receipts?? I have never purchased a gun as a gift so I want to be sure.

If I were going to "gift" somebody a firearm, I would purchase a gift-card for the store with the gun, for the amount of the gun (and tax), and give the gift card. Then the recipient can fill out all the paperwork and pay for his gun with your gift card.

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advise. But that's how I'd do it.

[RoyGBiv]

That's the straw purchase distinction, absolutely.
There is no "gift" option on Form 4473.

So, how much time (or what other actions) must expire between the time that you buy the gun, and the time when you can sell it to someone else as a private transaction?

I'm no lawyer, so, FWIW ...

Seems to me that if it's a gift (my money, my purchase, give it to you [as long as you are not prohibited]), it's ok. No "waiting period".
But.....

If you give me the money, and I do the 4473 in my name... that's a no-no
and....

if you "promise to repay me" and I do the 4473 in my name... also a no-no.

Basically... An honest gift is ok, a prearranged onward-sale is not.

Again... That's just my OPINION. Worth nothing to you (or me ) in court.

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download ... 4473-1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Emphasis added...

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are
the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or
otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from
pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the
actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift
for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES:
Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr.
Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANS-FEREE/BUYER
of the firearm and must answer “NO” to question 11.a. The licensee
may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown
goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present,
Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer
“YES” to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any
person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18
U.S.C. §922(g), (n), or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking
up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer
11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.

[mojo84]

That's the straw purchase distinction, absolutely.
There is no "gift" option on Form 4473.

I recommend you read the instructions for question 11a of the 4473.

https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/downloa ... 4473-1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Purchasing a firearm as a "gift" is perfectly legal as long as it is a gift. It's explained in the instructions.

[cb1000rider]

Actually, I think I figured out that this is a non-issue.
Instructions in 4473 say:

IMPORTANT NOTICES:
For purposes of this form, you are the actual buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (for example,
redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment). You are also the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm as a legitimate gift for a third party.

That sorts it out for me as an in-state gift to someone who would be allowed to own a firearm...

[Jim Beaux]

Writing for the majority, Justice Elena Kagan said the federal government's elaborate system of background checks and record-keeping requirements help law enforcement investigate crimes by tracing guns to their buyers. Those provisions would mean little, she said, if a would-be gun buyer could evade them by simply getting another person to buy the gun and fill out the paperwork.

Nope, no gun registry shenanigans going on thru NICS there... Not a smidgeon!

And yet they were able to determine the particulars of this transaction without problem.