NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

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skeathley
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NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#1

Post by skeathley » Thu May 03, 2018 6:21 pm

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rotor
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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#2

Post by rotor » Thu May 03, 2018 7:49 pm

There may be more to this story than meets the eye. Did they apply through the state insurance commission before selling in NY? Lots of states have different laws about insurance. If you see that advertisement about New Day mortgage with the admiral pushing it yet they can't sell it in Texas. This may not be a 2A issue. Who knows?


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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#3

Post by NNT » Thu May 03, 2018 8:58 pm

On the radio today npr said it was because it was illegal to insure a criminal activity... :confused5 example was given to refute it was if you are speeding and hit someone, your car insurance still pays...

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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#4

Post by Liberty » Fri May 04, 2018 6:05 am

The real thing is that New York really hates it if the common man has the ability to get a decent defense. Only the wealthy should have the ability to defend themseves on the street, in their homes or in the court of law. The elitist find it detestable that a plumber or electrician might get have the rights in the courtroom as their the country clubs peers or mafia connected contributors.

Once the deplorables get equal standing in courts, their representation in the legislature is sure to follow. It's pretty hard for those of us in Texas to understand the classist stratification of the New York Beacon Hill or the New York 5th Avenuers.
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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#5

Post by philbo » Fri May 04, 2018 8:38 am

rotor wrote:There may be more to this story than meets the eye.
This is more what I see when i read the underlying consent order agreed to by all of the parties. It seems that Lockton (the insurer) was operating as an excess line market insurer (not a general underwriter) without complying with state laws in doing so. Insurance laws vary dramatically from state to state and stepping on the toes of the in-state insurer's is always a large risk.

Liability insurance may not be offered in the New York State excess line market, specifically:
- Defense coverage in a criminal proceeding;
- Liability coverage for bodily injury or property damage expected or intended from the insured’s standpoint in an insurance policy limited to use of firearms and that was beyond the use of reasonable force to protect persons or property; and
- Coverage for expenses incurred by the insured for psychological counseling support.


Both the Press release and the underlying order can be read here:
https://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press/pr1805021.htm

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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#6

Post by mojo84 » Fri May 04, 2018 10:11 am

As an insurance broker and 2nd Amendment supporter, I find this ruling very concerning for multiple reasons. :mad5


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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#7

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri May 04, 2018 10:32 am

The liberals can't seem to make up their mind. One day they want to mandate that all gun owners carry liability insurance. The next day they want to forbid gun owners from carrying liability insurance.

Maybe their end goal is to mandate insurance, but then forbid any company from actually offering the insurance?
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#8

Post by Pawpaw » Fri May 04, 2018 10:47 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:The liberals can't seem to make up their mind. One day they want to mandate that all gun owners carry liability insurance. The next day they want to forbid gun owners from carrying liability insurance.

Maybe their end goal is to mandate insurance, but then forbid any company from actually offering the insurance?
Two different kinds of insurance.... two different game plans.

Liability insurance: For any defensive use of your weapon, the person you shoot (the perp) must be coddled and taken care of.

Defense insurance: If you have the audacity to defend yourself, you must be ruined. If they can't convict you, then the cost of your defense must finish you off.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#9

Post by mojo84 » Fri May 04, 2018 11:50 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:The liberals can't seem to make up their mind. One day they want to mandate that all gun owners carry liability insurance. The next day they want to forbid gun owners from carrying liability insurance.

Maybe their end goal is to mandate insurance, but then forbid any company from actually offering the insurance?
Difference between 3rd party and 1st party coverage.

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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#10

Post by mojo84 » Fri May 11, 2018 2:38 pm

When a company take steps that will offend or run off a large number of customers or potential customers, we need to be curious what may be going on behind the scenes that prompted their decisions. Most companies will not let political bias overrule their focus on earning money. This is especially true when it comes to publicly traded companies that depend on growth to keep Wall Street happy. Lockton is not publicly traded but Chubb is.

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/na ... 489067.htm
The new complaint, filed on Friday, in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of New York, alleges DFS overstepped its regulatory mandate through its investigation into the NRA-branded Carry Guard insurance program and through guidance letters issued on April 19, 2018, to CEOs of insurance companies and banks doing business in New York.

The lawsuit claims the letters encourage institutions to manage reputational risk that may be posed by dealing with gun promotion organizations. The NRA further maintains that a press release issued the same day by Cuomo includes a statement from Vullo urging insurance companies and banks to discontinue their arrangements with the NRA. The complaint states that these moves by DFS have led several insurance companies to sever relationships with the NRA and to cancel insurance policies of New York customers.
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/na ... 488509.htm
Last week, Lockton was fined $7 million for unlawfully providing liability coverage to gun owners in the event they were charged with a crime involving their firearms, according to the New York Department of Financial Services.

The NRA suit, filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, alleges the New York investigation was “orchestrated” by the gun control organization Everytown for Gun Safety. Lockton and the NRA received subpoenas related to the investigation in October of last year. Everytown for Gun Safety did not respond to a request for comment.

“In the face of this politically motivated coercion, Lockton should have honored its fiduciary obligations and longstanding business relationship with the NRA and taken full responsibility for any compliance related concerns,” the complaint stated, referring to the New York investigation. “Simply put, Lockton ceased to protect the NRA and its interests.”

The suit also alleges Lockton secretly communicated with insurance underwriters, who went on to end relationships with the NRA. Lockton’s actions, as alleged by the NRA, cost the second amendment group “tens of millions of dollars in damages.”

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/na ... 488872.htm
Lloyd’s of London has directed its underwriters to terminate any insurance programs they have with the National Rifle Association (NRA) and to not enter into any new ones.

“The Lloyd’s Corporation has given very careful consideration as to whether syndicates at Lloyd’s should continue to insure programmes offered, marketed, endorsed or otherwise made available through the National Rifle Association of America,” Lloyd’s said in a statement.


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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#11

Post by flechero » Fri May 11, 2018 7:40 pm

Just another reason the NRA should start a bank and insurance co for the membership...



I think this should be overturned in short order, unless the judge is also on the take.


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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#12

Post by rotor » Sat May 12, 2018 4:42 pm

NRA is suing NY State and the NRA CarryGuard broker. Don't know how this will affect those with insurance. Read this in Wall Street Journal.

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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#13

Post by mojo84 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:35 pm

Now California is joining in.

http://www.businessinsurance.com/articl ... eCampaign
The California Department of Insurance has issued a cease and desist order to the National Rifle Association, alleging that the NRA marketed an insurance product in California without a license.

In a statement announcing Tuesday’s order, the department noted that the NRA sponsors the Carry Guard Personal Firearms Liability, including Self-Defense Insurance Policy. According to the department, the product provides coverage for bodily injury or property damages that result from the legal use of a firearm.

Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones said, "The California Department of Insurance insists on full compliance with California law that requires persons soliciting the purchase of insurance in California must be appropriately licensed to do so. Because the NRA allegedly failed to comply with this California legal requirement, it became necessary for the department to take this action against the NRA to end this illegal conduct in California."

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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#14

Post by Jusme » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:38 pm

mojo84 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:35 pm
Now California is joining in.

http://www.businessinsurance.com/articl ... eCampaign
The California Department of Insurance has issued a cease and desist order to the National Rifle Association, alleging that the NRA marketed an insurance product in California without a license.

In a statement announcing Tuesday’s order, the department noted that the NRA sponsors the Carry Guard Personal Firearms Liability, including Self-Defense Insurance Policy. According to the department, the product provides coverage for bodily injury or property damages that result from the legal use of a firearm.

Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones said, "The California Department of Insurance insists on full compliance with California law that requires persons soliciting the purchase of insurance in California must be appropriately licensed to do so. Because the NRA allegedly failed to comply with this California legal requirement, it became necessary for the department to take this action against the NRA to end this illegal conduct in California."
One more reason to move out of the communist state that it has become.
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Re: NY State outlaws NRA CarryGuard

#15

Post by WildRose » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:41 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:32 am
The liberals can't seem to make up their mind. One day they want to mandate that all gun owners carry liability insurance. The next day they want to forbid gun owners from carrying liability insurance.

Maybe their end goal is to mandate insurance, but then forbid any company from actually offering the insurance?
The main goal of the mandatory insurance is to drive up the cost of owning a firearm so high that most of us can't afford to do so.
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