School teacher quiz

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rotor
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Re: new idea?

#16

Post by rotor » Thu May 31, 2018 11:01 pm

flechero wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:16 pm
Since the divide feels pretty evenly split, maybe we should try a split system. Schools with armed personnel and those with the current hide and hope mentality, within the same district. Let parents decide what they want... and in a few years (and after shootings continue at soft target schools) I bet that there will be no more demand for unarmed schools.
This is not a bad idea but every female teacher I know including those in my family will not touch a gun. I can't speak for the males. When my wife goes to the metroplex with her school teacher friends there is only one of them armed and that is my wife. How many on this forum have wives that are teachers or are teachers themselves? Would your wife carry in school? Would you (males) carry in a school. I assume the men would but the women? And most teachers are women. On the other hand we only need a few armed in school to lower the fatality rate. Doesn't have to be 100%.


flechero
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Re: new idea?

#17

Post by flechero » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:49 am

rotor wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:01 pm
flechero wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:16 pm
Since the divide feels pretty evenly split, maybe we should try a split system. Schools with armed personnel and those with the current hide and hope mentality, within the same district. Let parents decide what they want... and in a few years (and after shootings continue at soft target schools) I bet that there will be no more demand for unarmed schools.
This is not a bad idea but every female teacher I know including those in my family will not touch a gun. I can't speak for the males. When my wife goes to the metroplex with her school teacher friends there is only one of them armed and that is my wife. How many on this forum have wives that are teachers or are teachers themselves? Would your wife carry in school? Would you (males) carry in a school. I assume the men would but the women? And most teachers are women. On the other hand we only need a few armed in school to lower the fatality rate. Doesn't have to be 100%.

Heck, even just 10% would be great!!!

My wife is not a teacher but is a home room mom and at the school several days a week. (she is LTC) I also volunteer regularly and obliviously carry. So we may not be a good example, but have had the discussion with some teachers at my son's school. Many we talked to want to carry and several others also agree that there should be not only people armed but they suggested an AR to be in a locker in each hallway with a few people able to access said lockers. We are a private school... no carry yet, but the board just authorized it on a case by case basis as requested by the head of school. Making progress!!

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Re: new idea?

#18

Post by troglodyte » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:02 pm

rotor wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:01 pm
flechero wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 8:16 pm
Since the divide feels pretty evenly split, maybe we should try a split system. Schools with armed personnel and those with the current hide and hope mentality, within the same district. Let parents decide what they want... and in a few years (and after shootings continue at soft target schools) I bet that there will be no more demand for unarmed schools.
This is not a bad idea but every female teacher I know including those in my family will not touch a gun. I can't speak for the males. When my wife goes to the metroplex with her school teacher friends there is only one of them armed and that is my wife. How many on this forum have wives that are teachers or are teachers themselves? Would your wife carry in school? Would you (males) carry in a school. I assume the men would but the women? And most teachers are women. On the other hand we only need a few armed in school to lower the fatality rate. Doesn't have to be 100%.
My wife is a teacher and carries at school as does another female teacher in addition to some male teachers. There are several others, both male and female, that I’m working on getting through the training.

As a former teacher I worked for years trying to get the school board to allow carry.
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Re: School teacher quiz

#19

Post by C-dub » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:13 pm

My 16y daughter wants to be a teacher. She also wants to get her LTC when she's 21. She would carry at school if they allowed it.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
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Re: School teacher quiz

#20

Post by howdy » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:58 pm

I have responded to these discussion before. I am a retired Delta Pilot and I went through the second Federal Flight Deck Officer class at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Brunswick, Ga. After 911, the Pilot's union and individual pilots started pushing for a training program that would let us carry on the aircraft. All the nay sayers said we should concentrate on flying the jet vs shooting someone. We tried to explain it was difficult to fly when someone was trying to kill you. Finally in 2003 the Feds approved a course for "special pilots". These were the management pilots and other selected persons. I was actually in the first real class of line pilots in July of 2003. We were all vetted and had to have an extensive background check, took psychological tests and had to interview with a shrink. The pilots were required to pay for our hotel/meals and we had to get the time off during your vacation. The tough part was getting selected to a certain class date and then trying to get the company to move your vacation to those days. Delta was (at first) against the program so they would not work with us. The Feds paid for the actual training. We could fly for free so getting to the training site did not cost anything. The class was outstanding. We were issued our own H&K USP compact .40 cal pistol and did all of our training with that issued gun. We had specific rules of engagement and spent about half the day in class and the other half on the range. We had a mixture of ex military and civilian trained pilots. We all had a shooting background. (I was a CHL Instructor) The shooting part was outstanding. We did everything from the draw. We did move and shoot, malfunction drills, shoot from cover. We had computer based scenarios that were lots of fun. We were deputized Federal Law Enforcement Officers and carried credentials that certified that. There has never been another attempted high jacking of a US air carrier since that program, Federal Air Marshall, increased security, etc. were enacted. It was all voluntary and many Pilots were against it. It was made clear to the airlines that they COULD NOT barr us from carrying. (I was getting an International route (Honolulu) checkout from a check airman and he told me I could not carry. I explained to him he had no choice and it was not up for discussion)

The Teachers could go through this type of program. The mere thought that multiple people in the school were armed might make the shooter go somewhere else to become immortal. I am convinced that each Police Dept/Government agency dreams about becoming bigger...hiring more officers and getting larger budgets. There is no reason that people already at the school are not allowed to be armed. This would be a low cost (cost of training and requal) item. The Teachers would do it for free. They Must be allowed to carry on person. A lock box is stupid. The Teacher is not always in their class. The kids go to the cafeteria, outside to play, to the bathroom, to the gym, etc. Teachers spend part of their day in the hallway and shuffling kids around. It would be a secret who was carrying. Only the Principal would know.We could start training Teachers now during the Summer months and have an effective deterrent in place in the new school year.
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Take Down Sicko
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Re: School teacher quiz

#21

Post by Take Down Sicko » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:24 pm

I have always been for arming teachers who want to carry a firearm and adding LEO's to schools. Makes lots of sense to allow those teachers the ability to defende themself and there students from attacks if the need arises. I agree with you 100 percent.


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rotor
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Re: School teacher quiz

#22

Post by rotor » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

howdy wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:58 pm
I have responded to these discussion before. I am a retired Delta Pilot and I went through the second Federal Flight Deck Officer class at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Brunswick, Ga. After 911, the Pilot's union and individual pilots started pushing for a training program that would let us carry on the aircraft. All the nay sayers said we should concentrate on flying the jet vs shooting someone. We tried to explain it was difficult to fly when someone was trying to kill you. Finally in 2003 the Feds approved a course for "special pilots". These were the management pilots and other selected persons. I was actually in the first real class of line pilots in July of 2003. We were all vetted and had to have an extensive background check, took psychological tests and had to interview with a shrink. The pilots were required to pay for our hotel/meals and we had to get the time off during your vacation. The tough part was getting selected to a certain class date and then trying to get the company to move your vacation to those days. Delta was (at first) against the program so they would not work with us. The Feds paid for the actual training. We could fly for free so getting to the training site did not cost anything. The class was outstanding. We were issued our own H&K USP compact .40 cal pistol and did all of our training with that issued gun. We had specific rules of engagement and spent about half the day in class and the other half on the range. We had a mixture of ex military and civilian trained pilots. We all had a shooting background. (I was a CHL Instructor) The shooting part was outstanding. We did everything from the draw. We did move and shoot, malfunction drills, shoot from cover. We had computer based scenarios that were lots of fun. We were deputized Federal Law Enforcement Officers and carried credentials that certified that. There has never been another attempted high jacking of a US air carrier since that program, Federal Air Marshall, increased security, etc. were enacted. It was all voluntary and many Pilots were against it. It was made clear to the airlines that they COULD NOT barr us from carrying. (I was getting an International route (Honolulu) checkout from a check airman and he told me I could not carry. I explained to him he had no choice and it was not up for discussion)

The Teachers could go through this type of program. The mere thought that multiple people in the school were armed might make the shooter go somewhere else to become immortal. I am convinced that each Police Dept/Government agency dreams about becoming bigger...hiring more officers and getting larger budgets. There is no reason that people already at the school are not allowed to be armed. This would be a low cost (cost of training and requal) item. The Teachers would do it for free. They Must be allowed to carry on person. A lock box is stupid. The Teacher is not always in their class. The kids go to the cafeteria, outside to play, to the bathroom, to the gym, etc. Teachers spend part of their day in the hallway and shuffling kids around. It would be a secret who was carrying. Only the Principal would know.We could start training Teachers now during the Summer months and have an effective deterrent in place in the new school year.
Your experience is so great and your ideas are so logical therefore they probably will not be accepted by most. Logic just doesn't fit into the big scheme of things.


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Re: School teacher quiz

#23

Post by chasfm11 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:29 am

The point about teachers not made in this thread yet is that there are MANY of them that have LTCs and carry when not in schools. In my discussions with those so vehemently opposed to teachers carrying , I pointed out that the teachers already carry and often randomly see their students at local retail outlets, etc. I asked what the difference was between Wal-Mart and the school building was in that regard. Of course, the subject gets changed or the person goes into the "you don't understand - schools are special" routine. I have a permanent teaching certificate and responded "yes, I do understand about the school environment."

I have a good friend who is a college professor. She carried all the time everywhere but her classroom until Campus Carry passed. Now she can carry in her classroom, too. She is not alone but she and the others like her cannot make themselves know to their colleagues or they would risk losing their positions.
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Re: School teacher quiz

#24

Post by WTR » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:57 am

My wife is a University Professor. She teaches at a private University. The University opted out of Campu Carry. She has been "locked down" twice this last year. Her class room doors do not even have locking hardware on them. Fire extinguishers and pepper spray is the best she can do. Avalibility to her weapon would make us both more comfortable.

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Re: School teacher quiz

#25

Post by Paladin » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:17 pm

howdy wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:58 pm
I have responded to these discussion before. I am a retired Delta Pilot and I went through the second Federal Flight Deck Officer class at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Brunswick, Ga.

...There is no reason that people already at the school are not allowed to be armed. This would be a low cost (cost of training and requal) item. The Teachers would do it for free. They Must be allowed to carry on person.
howdy,

Thank you for protecting our nation! Appreciate your thoughts and perspective.

You are very correct that allowing armed teachers would be a very cost effective method of protecting schools. Dollars spent hiring more security would not go half as far. And as the events at Parkland show, armed police officers may refuse to respond at the moment of truth.

According to the Fact Sheet on The Federal Flight Deck Officer Program:
The federal cost to have a deputized FFDO on board is approximately $17; the cost incurred for each [Federal Air Marshal] onboard is approximately $3,000.
Those numbers show that FFDO's are 176 times more cost effective than Federal Air Marshals.

The US needs to expand both the FFDO and armed teacher programs.
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Paladin
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Re: School teacher quiz

#26

Post by Paladin » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:48 pm

According to the Census of State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies, 2008
There were 809,000 sworn law enforcement officers in the US in 2008. 44,000 of those were part time.

With a 2008 US population of 304 million that gives us 1 police officer for every 376 persons in the US. Assuming an average work week of 40 hours, that means that there is only 1 on-duty police officer for every 1,578 persons in the US.

In 2018 there is 1 LTC per 20 persons in the US (16 million in a population of 326.5 million). That ratio does not include unlicensed carriers in Right-to-Carry states. Armed citizens are often on scene when Law Enforcement Officers can not be. Armed Citizens are a vital low-cost force multiplier against crime, even if they are simply protecting themselves or their own family.
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