CC at a high school tennis court?

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Ruark
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CC at a high school tennis court?

#1

Post by Ruark » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:52 am

As many of you know, almost all high schools or school districts have tennis courts, most of them available to the public when they're not being used by school tennis teams or PE classes. One place where I play frequently is a big, sprawling operation with 18 courts, complete with full service pro shop. It's completely owned and operated by the school district (the pro shop employees are all school district employees) and is used by the high school next door for teams and classes, but is also open to the public and is the site for tournaments, tennis camps and clinics, adult tennis leagues, etc.

When you go there after hours or on weekends, the pro shop is closed but they leave the gates open, and you can be completely alone. I've often thought of putting my gun in my tennis bag for security, but the "school" aspect of it makes me nervous.

Thoughts?
-Ruark


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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#2

Post by srothstein » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:47 am

IMO don't worry about it. Remember that the law banning carry at schools only bans it in the premises of the school. Premises is defined as the buildings. Concealed carry is legal on the tennis courts unless there is a school sponsored activity going on there.

Obviously, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
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Keith B
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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#3

Post by Keith B » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:31 am

srothstein wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:47 am
IMO don't worry about it. Remember that the law banning carry at schools only bans it in the premises of the school. Premises is defined as the buildings. Concealed carry is legal on the tennis courts unless there is a school sponsored activity going on there.

Obviously, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
:iagree: 100%
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PriestTheRunner
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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#4

Post by PriestTheRunner » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:15 pm

srothstein wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:47 am
IMO don't worry about it. Remember that the law banning carry at schools only bans it in the premises of the school. Premises is defined as the buildings. Concealed carry is legal on the tennis courts unless there is a school sponsored activity going on there.

Obviously, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
Completely agree. However, I would add to never go into the pro shop armed.

We need to fix this law.


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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#5

Post by Boxerrider » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:05 pm

I agree with carrying as long as there is not a school activity going on. I don't think having it in your bag is a good idea.


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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#6

Post by WildRose » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:47 am

Boxerrider wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:05 pm
I agree with carrying as long as there is not a school activity going on. I don't think having it in your bag is a good idea.
Off body carry is always a bad idea and leaving a gun unsecured in a bag that could easily be stolen while you're occupied is just a recipe for disaster.
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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#7

Post by oljames3 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:56 am

WildRose wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:47 am
Boxerrider wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:05 pm
I agree with carrying as long as there is not a school activity going on. I don't think having it in your bag is a good idea.
Off body carry is always a bad idea and leaving a gun unsecured in a bag that could easily be stolen while you're occupied is just a recipe for disaster.
:iagree:
Active Self Protection has many videos on YouTube about off-body carrying failures. My wife did not want to carry on her person until she had her own epiphany about the necessity of always having your tools with out and the ease with which one could loose track of one's off-body tools.
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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#8

Post by Scott B. » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:06 am

srothstein wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:47 am
IMO don't worry about it. Remember that the law banning carry at schools only bans it in the premises of the school. Premises is defined as the buildings. Concealed carry is legal on the tennis courts unless there is a school sponsored activity going on there.

Obviously, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
46.03 has a lot of ambiguity.
PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER
.
(a-2) Notwithstanding Subsection (a) or Section 46.03(a), a license holder
commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on the campus of
a private or independent institution of higher education in this state that has
established rules, regulations, or other provisions prohibiting license holders from
carrying handguns pursuant to Section 411.2031(e), Government Code, or on
the grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by such an institution is
being conducted
, or in a passenger transportation vehicle of such an institution,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, provided the institution gives
effective notice under Section 30.06.

(a-3)
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting
event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a
participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
We have to be very careful with commas, the word 'or', and note in A-3 there is no mention of 'School', simply premises.

Perhaps one of the folks with a J.D. after their name will come along and comment.


And I agree with everybody else, gun in unattended bag is bad idea, just like an unattended purse (with or without a gun in it).
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Ruark
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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#9

Post by Ruark » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:51 am

Thanks for the feedback so far. No, the gun in the bag isn't a problem. Given that it's impossible to play tennis with a gun in your shorts, the bag is sitting on a bench right next to the court you're playing on. Nobody else goes near it. The nearest people are typically 100+ yards away.
-Ruark


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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#10

Post by rotor » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:27 am

This is when I would argue that a Kel-Tec p32 in your shorts is better than a Glock sitting in a bag 20 feet away. There is a place for mouse guns.


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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#11

Post by WildRose » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:39 pm

oljames3 wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:56 am
WildRose wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:47 am
Boxerrider wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:05 pm
I agree with carrying as long as there is not a school activity going on. I don't think having it in your bag is a good idea.
Off body carry is always a bad idea and leaving a gun unsecured in a bag that could easily be stolen while you're occupied is just a recipe for disaster.
:iagree:
Active Self Protection has many videos on YouTube about off-body carrying failures. My wife did not want to carry on her person until she had her own epiphany about the necessity of always having your tools with out and the ease with which one could loose track of one's off-body tools.
I don't always agree with his take on things but he has perhaps the best video series available online showing literally hundreds of actual self defense scenarios and he does a great job of breaking the events down as they occur.

The more of these type situations you see play out the more prepared anyone will be and the better you'll be at spotting trouble before it can even begin.
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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#12

Post by WildRose » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:42 pm

Ruark wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:51 am
Thanks for the feedback so far. No, the gun in the bag isn't a problem. Given that it's impossible to play tennis with a gun in your shorts, the bag is sitting on a bench right next to the court you're playing on. Nobody else goes near it. The nearest people are typically 100+ yards away.
There are all sorts of elastic body wrapping "gun gloves" that allow for comfortable and safe carry for people engaged in sporting events.

There's just no way at all I would every suggest to anyone leaving a gun in a bag on the courts or anywhere else. It's doing you absolutely no good whatsoever if it's out of reach and all you are creating is an opportunity for something bad to happen.

I wholeheartedly suggest reconsidering carrying in such a manner.
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Without The First and Second Amendments the rest are meaningless.


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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#13

Post by WildRose » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:45 pm

rotor wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:27 am
This is when I would argue that a Kel-Tec p32 in your shorts is better than a Glock sitting in a bag 20 feet away. There is a place for mouse guns.
There are a number of very high quality modern derringers on the market and various small pocket pistols as well.

One that goes overlooked by most people for self defense is the .22wm. Particularly when loaded with the 60gr soft point or JHP it has all the stopping power you would ever need in a "close encounter" and they can be carried almost without notice to the carrier when properly holstered.
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TomS
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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#14

Post by TomS » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:55 pm

CCW on school grounds is perfectly legal, just not inside the structures or if school sponsored activities are present.

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Re: CC at a high school tennis court?

#15

Post by jmra » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:03 pm

This got me wondering:
CC is legal on the grounds. But at what point do you lose the “carry” part of CC? If my weapon is in a bag across the court from me am I still actually carrying? It’s my understanding I can either CC on the grounds or lock the weapon concealed in my car. Not sure about the legality of leaving the gun in a unsecured bag that I am not physically carrying.
Not trying to start any controversy, just curious at what distance would I no longer be considered legally carrying.
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