Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

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OlBill
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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#16

Post by OlBill » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:28 pm

And it's not "just like when they have a warrant." She was pointing a gun at him and yelling orders at him in his own home.

And by the way, that whole "getting shot" thing goes for any of us.


OlBill
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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#17

Post by OlBill » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:31 pm

Does authority have no respect for people anymore?

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Grundy1133
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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#18

Post by Grundy1133 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:35 pm

OlBill wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:26 pm
Grundy1133 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:17 pm
OlBill wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:11 pm
after a hard day of working at your cooshy office job/factory job/whatever you do for a living.
You ever work in a plant or in the oilfield?
what kind of oilfield do you work at where you're getting shot at..? i know oilfields and plant workers have hazards but a lot of it is due to negligence. someone just walking up to you and shooting you is different than a pipe bursting because new guy jim didn't tighten screw it down tight enough.
Getting shot is not the only way to die. In fact it's not the worst way in my book.
never said it was. what i did say was cops jobs are 10x harder than anyone who works a normal cushy job compared to all the garbage cops have to put up with.
He didn't walk up to anybody and do anything and he didn't make any mistakes. And yet he's dead because she can't find or own door. She needs to go to prison for the rest of her life.
I never said she didn't deserve to. What I did say in my original post was that the person i was tlaking to was bashing LEOs and being obstinate and disrespectful and i basically told him that kind of attitude toward authoritative figures could get him in trouble or worse. I feel like at this point you just want to argue and I don't feel like wasting my time or energy. The cop wasn't in the right, but the original facebook post made it out to sound like it was on purpose and it was bashing cops and the guy i was talking to was being disrespectful. if you wanna debate whether the LEO was in the right or not i believe theres another thread already going on about that.
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OlBill
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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#19

Post by OlBill » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:37 pm

Why does that cop deserve respect?

What would happen to me if I did that?

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Grundy1133
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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#20

Post by Grundy1133 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:49 pm

OlBill wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:37 pm
Why does that cop deserve respect?

What would happen to me if I did that?
well based on your logic, if you had done that you'd lose respect for youself, other than that i imagine the same thing would happen to you that'll happen to her. But like I said there's already a topic running about the incident https://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=93585. you may wanna check it out. this topic was about a convo i had with a guy on facebook.
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OlBill
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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#21

Post by OlBill » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:52 pm

With which I disagree.


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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#22

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:57 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:12 pm
rotor wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:58 pm
I don't agree with your premise that one must follow every order given by LEO as this can get you killed. LEO are not The Gestapo. There will be no going to a judge to argue your case if you are dead. There have been sexual assaults by LEO that never should be occurring. If a LEO, as in this case, breaks into your house as she did you are legally able to protect yourself and shoot before she shoots. Her uniform does not give her immunity. It may be a tough fight afterwards with the legal system but at least you are still alive. Is there any question that the victim in this case would have been legally correct if he killed the invading LEO?
Whether or not her uniform gives her immunity was never the question or issue. It was that IF she was telling him to do something like, get on the ground or something to the like, you do it. and afterward if you feel your rights have been violated you can then press charges. because the fact of the matter was she had a gun and he didnt. in my experience when you're unarmed, if you want to stay alive you do what the person with the gun says... HOWEVER if she DIDNT say anything but just pulled her gun and shot, then yes i think if he was armed, he would have been within his legal rights to fire on her before she fired on him. imagine the same scenario, only the LEO was just a avg citizen. the victim would have been within his legal rights in defending himself.
First off, the victim in Dallas would have been within his rights to shoot the armed trespasser regardless of whether she pulled her gun, or said anything. The shooter here was the victim's employee. Let's not pretend that she should have more rights than the people she works for. Just ask yourself, "would the cop have been within her rights to shoot an armed intruder who entered her home?" That gives you your answer.

I agree with you that if you are unarmed (as I believe was the case here), and you can not easily escape, then it is best to comply with the demands of the armed person, whether that person is a cop or just an armed BG. Your goal is simply survival. Let the cops deal with the person who caused you harm (even if that person is a cop). By choosing to be unarmed, you have given up other avenues that you could otherwise take.

In the case we are talking about, it would have been much better if the victim had been armed, as that would have given him additional options to employ against the home invader. And using deadly force might have been a reasonable option to employ.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#23

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:17 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:12 pm
rotor wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:58 pm
I don't agree with your premise that one must follow every order given by LEO as this can get you killed. LEO are not The Gestapo. There will be no going to a judge to argue your case if you are dead. There have been sexual assaults by LEO that never should be occurring. If a LEO, as in this case, breaks into your house as she did you are legally able to protect yourself and shoot before she shoots. Her uniform does not give her immunity. It may be a tough fight afterwards with the legal system but at least you are still alive. Is there any question that the victim in this case would have been legally correct if he killed the invading LEO?
Whether or not her uniform gives her immunity was never the question or issue. It was that IF she was telling him to do something like, get on the ground or something to the like, you do it. and afterward if you feel your rights have been violated you can then press charges. because the fact of the matter was she had a gun and he didnt. in my experience when you're unarmed, if you want to stay alive you do what the person with the gun says... HOWEVER if she DIDNT say anything but just pulled her gun and shot, then yes i think if he was armed, he would have been within his legal rights to fire on her before she fired on him. imagine the same scenario, only the LEO was just a avg citizen. the victim would have been within his legal rights in defending himself.
In the situation as described, if the victim was being told to get on the ground or put his hands up by an armed burglar, he would have been 100% justified in using deadly force (i.e. shooting her), whether she was dressed in a blue suit with a shiny pin, or a tattered hoodie and saggy pants. If you commit an illegal act like armed burglary at night you by definition lose your authority to issue a lawful order. The time to fight back is before you’re murdered by a home invader with a badge, not later so your family has to sue the city for wrongful death. While I’m usually not in agreement with race baiting slip and fall lawyers that seem to be attracted to these types of tragedies, in this case the DPD needs to take a hard look at their officers and training or lack thereof and will likely be saddling the Dallas taxpayers with a big settlement.

A Peace Officer deserves no authority above that granted by law. If they give an order that is clearly unlawful and you have the ability to safely resist or refuse to comply, then you should. On the other hand, it’s better to comply if the alternative is to be killed by a crooked cop.

I know most people on this forum probably won’t agree with me, but if you have a libertarian bent like me, you should check out some of the First Amendment “Audits” on youtube. There’s one guy in Houston who goes around filming always from a public sidewalk or right of way some places that are interesting and newsworthy....like federal courthouses, police stations, FBI offices, refineries, nuclear plants, etc. He never trespasses and only films what is visible from public. Then watch as he’s given unlawful orders to leave, stop filming, produce ID, explain himself, etc. Watch him politely refuse and stand on his lawful rights. I love the stuff. Actually about 50% of the time the police supervisors come, investigate,,and then inform the reporting parties that he is doing nothing wrong and leave. He then packs up his camera and leaves, his point being made. Other times he ends up getting harassed,detained, and occasionally (falsely) arrested for doing something that isn’t a crime. You’d think he’s some hippie ne’er do well or professional victim, but a actually think he’s an Army vet with a libertarian outlook. :evil2:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#24

Post by OlBill » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:21 pm

Does he ever get an apology?


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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#25

Post by mayor » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:26 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:35 pm
what i did say was cops jobs are 10x harder than anyone who works a normal cushy job compared to all the garbage cops have to put up with.
If your career choice is 10x harder than you expected, you should have done more research. And if it keeps being 10x harder, then you should change careers. I think police officers have a cushy job interspersed with short periods of extreme terror. Maybe she was fatigued because she was bored all shift.

I've tried to unlock a vehicle that wan't mine. When my key didn't work, it didn't take me long to figure out the problem and move on. I've also gotten off the elevator on the wrong floor in a hotel. As much as the floors and room doors look alike, they still look different.

This was a tragic mistake for both parties that only one will regret.

A friend of mine ran over one of his twin sons with a tractor. That was punishment enough. Tragic mistakes should be judged and punished as such. I'm glad I don't have to make the decision. I think the officer has been punished enough.

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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#26

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:45 pm

OlBill wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:21 pm
Does he ever get an apology?
Sometimes he does. They’re really great videos. The Houston guy is really polite and calm. I think he’s doing less videos now because all the departments already know him.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#27

Post by jason812 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:24 pm

OlBill wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:31 pm
Does authority have no respect for people anymore?
:iagree:

I could answer this but I believe you probably already know the answer.


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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#28

Post by apostate » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:36 pm

"We cannot expect people to have respect for law and order until we teach respect to those we have entrusted to enforce those laws." - Hunter S. Thompson

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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Do people have no respect for authority anymore?

#29

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:29 pm

A woman who is off-duty and not operating in her official capacity screws up and shoots an innocent man. Some of you use that to trash all LEO's, or at least the LEO community in general. When anti-gunners do the same to us based upon the actions of a single person, you scream foul to the top of your lungs. Your double standard is showing.

Since you cannot stick to the OP's topic, i.e. the specific event, this thread is locked.

Chas.
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