Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

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Oldgringo
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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#31

Post by Oldgringo » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:00 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:17 pm
RoyGBiv wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:13 pm

If you're OC-Ing, failing to consider the circumstances is on you. Like it or not.
I do agree with this. Whether one is OC or CC one must realize they are walking around with the ability to utilize deadly force and it is important to maintain a very docile presence.
:iagree:, having said that, is this guys picture going to be handed out to every Walmart employee everywhere or what? :woohoo

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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#32

Post by RoyGBiv » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:50 pm

C-dub wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:39 pm
And here's the ironic part, when I'm OCing I try even harder to not draw attention to myself.
Exactly
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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#33

Post by warnmar10 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:24 am

clarionite wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:51 pm
I must have missed the yelling at the gun counter part. There was nothing in what I read (unless I totally missed it) that said he was yelling. ...
You're not from around here are you.
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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#34

Post by chasfm11 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:58 am

C-dub wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:39 pm
For those of you that know me, don't laugh at this.

I try not to draw attention to myself most of the time.

When I'm CCing I try even more at that.

And here's the ironic part, when I'm OCing I try even harder to not draw attention to myself.
:iagree: I was in line at a pharmacy, standing back from the counter as the signs there request that you do. One of the clerks was waiting on another customer at the counter and the next thing I knew, both she and the customer walked out into the shelving area in the center of the store. She said the the assembled line " I'll be right back."

Meanwhile, some burly, sort of scruffy looking guy in a Harley shirt (no disrespect intended here) walks in and walks up to the counter, ignoring the line. The fellow behind me starts in on me " are you in line? If you are in line, you need to get up there." No way was I going to confront the line barger with a concealed gun on my hip. Sometimes, all it takes is reminding someone that there is a line to set them of. I felt like I was in a situation where no matter what I did, I was going to end up in a confrontation with one of these guys. My rule is that doesn't happen when I'm carrying. I especially never raise my voice above normal talking tone. Like you, C-dub, the people on the forum who know me know that I'm anything but a shrinking wall-flower. When I OC, I take this to the next level.

Regarding the original situation, I see a lot of parallels between it and the Erik Scott murder in Las Vegas. There, a Costco employee over reacted to an accidental concealed gun exposure and the police showed up in force and took stupidity to a much higher level. I'm just not willing to risk initiating that kind of scene.
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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#35

Post by flechero » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:14 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:44 am
and made to sign a trespass form
Could be easily challenged and thrown out... as he was made to sign it under duress. Of course he may not care after being treated that way.

Too much info missing for me to get ruffled yet, however, the gun case being unlocked and unattended is something a manager should be concerned about. (regardless of how it;s reported to him)

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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#36

Post by ScottDLS » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:57 am

I was at Walmart yesterday evening to buy some ammo. No one at the gun counter to open the ammo case. A clerk came by and she called several times to get the manager to open. Finally a stocker walked by and she got him to go back and get the keys. But they had a bulk pack of Winchester 9mm $85 for 500. That was worth waiting for. I was CCing the whole time, of course. ;-)
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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#37

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:33 am

flechero wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:14 am
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:44 am
and made to sign a trespass form
Could be easily challenged and thrown out... as he was made to sign it under duress. Of course he may not care after being treated that way.

Too much info missing for me to get ruffled yet, however, the gun case being unlocked and unattended is something a manager should be concerned about. (regardless of how it;s reported to him)
When I posted this story, I wasn’t as outraged as the person who tweeted the story in the first place.... but I was a little bit outraged. My opinion was that it was way over the line for an individual store manager (who may be only 1 of 2 or 3 for that store alone) to trespass the subject from ALL Walmart stores for LIFE, and it was unlawful for the police to make a private citizen sign a corporate document.

I think I would have refused to sign the form, and made the police trespass me out of that one store, since their jurisdiction is limited. I don’t see how they could arrest me for refusing to sign a Walmart generated form, which can apply to all stores. I don’t see how a "disorderly conduct" or similar charge could be made to stick for refusing to sign a private corporation's form. Walmart is not the law, and I’m pretty sure that a court would agree. I think that, when the officer tried to hand me my gun back, I would have said, "Here’s what we're gonna do. You hang onto that for a minute so that you all will feel safer about things, and we're going to all walk out of the store together. You can detain me in cuffs while walking out it makes you feel better. Then, once we're outside, you can cite me, or trespass me using one of your forms. Then, if you can’t find a reason to actually arrest me, you can uncuff me, return my firearm, and I’ll leave peacefully. But I am NOT going to sign a form produced by a non-law enforcement entity—which is well within my rights to refuse to do—and you can't MAKE me put my signature to a document that isn’t gov’t generated. Shall we walk?"
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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#38

Post by oljames3 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:43 am

ScottDLS wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:57 am
I was at Walmart yesterday evening to buy some ammo. No one at the gun counter to open the ammo case. A clerk came by and she called several times to get the manager to open. Finally a stocker walked by and she got him to go back and get the keys. But they had a bulk pack of Winchester 9mm $85 for 500. That was worth waiting for. I was CCing the whole time, of course. ;-)
I always carry openly wherever I legally can do so. S&W M&P M2.0 9mm 5inch in a Safariland 7TS ALS with Guard and QLS. The experience that ScottDLS described is normal for the Walmart in Elgin, where I usually buy my ammo. And, as ScottDLS said, I can't beat the price.

I don't cause a ruckus, just politely find the person with the key.
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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#39

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:29 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:33 am
flechero wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:14 am
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:44 am
and made to sign a trespass form
Could be easily challenged and thrown out... as he was made to sign it under duress. Of course he may not care after being treated that way.

Too much info missing for me to get ruffled yet, however, the gun case being unlocked and unattended is something a manager should be concerned about. (regardless of how it;s reported to him)
When I posted this story, I wasn’t as outraged as the person who tweeted the story in the first place.... but I was a little bit outraged. My opinion was that it was way over the line for an individual store manager (who may be only 1 of 2 or 3 for that store alone) to trespass the subject from ALL Walmart stores for LIFE, and it was unlawful for the police to make a private citizen sign a corporate document.

I think I would have refused to sign the form, and made the police trespass me out of that one store, since their jurisdiction is limited. I don’t see how they could arrest me for refusing to sign a Walmart generated form, which can apply to all stores. I don’t see how a "disorderly conduct" or similar charge could be made to stick for refusing to sign a private corporation's form. Walmart is not the law, and I’m pretty sure that a court would agree. I think that, when the officer tried to hand me my gun back, I would have said, "Here’s what we're gonna do. You hang onto that for a minute so that you all will feel safer about things, and we're going to all walk out of the store together. You can detain me in cuffs while walking out it makes you feel better. Then, once we're outside, you can cite me, or trespass me using one of your forms. Then, if you can’t find a reason to actually arrest me, you can uncuff me, return my firearm, and I’ll leave peacefully. But I am NOT going to sign a form produced by a non-law enforcement entity—which is well within my rights to refuse to do—and you can't MAKE me put my signature to a document that isn’t gov’t generated. Shall we walk?"
I think many times those forms are signed under threat of "pressing charges" such as in a shop lifting case. Like you, I am wondering exactly what charges they threatened to file on this guy.

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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#40

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:36 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:29 am
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:33 am
flechero wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:14 am
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:44 am
and made to sign a trespass form
Could be easily challenged and thrown out... as he was made to sign it under duress. Of course he may not care after being treated that way.

Too much info missing for me to get ruffled yet, however, the gun case being unlocked and unattended is something a manager should be concerned about. (regardless of how it;s reported to him)
When I posted this story, I wasn’t as outraged as the person who tweeted the story in the first place.... but I was a little bit outraged. My opinion was that it was way over the line for an individual store manager (who may be only 1 of 2 or 3 for that store alone) to trespass the subject from ALL Walmart stores for LIFE, and it was unlawful for the police to make a private citizen sign a corporate document.

I think I would have refused to sign the form, and made the police trespass me out of that one store, since their jurisdiction is limited. I don’t see how they could arrest me for refusing to sign a Walmart generated form, which can apply to all stores. I don’t see how a "disorderly conduct" or similar charge could be made to stick for refusing to sign a private corporation's form. Walmart is not the law, and I’m pretty sure that a court would agree. I think that, when the officer tried to hand me my gun back, I would have said, "Here’s what we're gonna do. You hang onto that for a minute so that you all will feel safer about things, and we're going to all walk out of the store together. You can detain me in cuffs while walking out it makes you feel better. Then, once we're outside, you can cite me, or trespass me using one of your forms. Then, if you can’t find a reason to actually arrest me, you can uncuff me, return my firearm, and I’ll leave peacefully. But I am NOT going to sign a form produced by a non-law enforcement entity—which is well within my rights to refuse to do—and you can't MAKE me put my signature to a document that isn’t gov’t generated. Shall we walk?"
I think many times those forms are signed under threat of "pressing charges" such as in a shop lifting case. Like you, I am wondering exactly what charges they threatened to file on this guy.
How are they going to do that, if he had no merchandise hidden about his person AND he’s on both police body cam video and whoever recorded the encounter on his cellphone, asking if he can at least pay for what’s in his cart before being ejected from the store? A DA would have to be a microcephalic functional illiterate to take such a case given the video record. I don’t know what the law is in Missouri, but I suppose that under Texas law, an LEO could give him a hard time for not having the gun in a belt or shoulder holster.....assuming that Texas law requires a belt to be present for a belt holster when open carrying.

They could threaten me with that if they wanted to, which would earn them a well deserved laugh. The person with the cellphone would document any effort to plant false evidence. Besides that, I don’t think most LEOs would be that corrupt. If you refused o sin the form, the worse they could do wold be to arrest you for disturbing the peace—a charge that would be dropped by the DA as soon as he saw the video record, maybe even with an apology.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#41

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:47 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:36 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:29 am


I think many times those forms are signed under threat of "pressing charges" such as in a shop lifting case. Like you, I am wondering exactly what charges they threatened to file on this guy.
How are they going to do that, if he had no merchandise hidden about his person AND he’s on both police body cam video and whoever recorded the encounter on his cellphone, asking if he can at least pay for what’s in his cart before being ejected from the store? A DA would have to be a microcephalic functional illiterate to take such a case given the video record. I don’t know what the law is in Missouri, but I suppose that under Texas law, an LEO could give him a hard time for not having the gun in a belt or shoulder holster.....assuming that Texas law requires a belt to be present for a belt holster when open carrying.

They could threaten me with that if they wanted to, which would earn them a well deserved laugh. The person with the cellphone would document any effort to plant false evidence. Besides that, I don’t think most LEOs would be that corrupt. If you refused o sin the form, the worse they could do wold be to arrest you for disturbing the peace—a charge that would be dropped by the DA as soon as he saw the video record, maybe even with an apology.
You may have misread what I posted. I wasn't saying he had done shop lifting. I was pointing out that shoplifting is one way they persuade a person to sign the form. In his case I can't imagine what threat they used if any. Maybe they threatened to charge him with some kind of disorderly conduct offense. The article doesn't say so we don't know.

I agree the guy should not have signed it but maybe he would rather sign the form than take the ride and beat the rap.


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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#42

Post by clarionite » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:09 pm

warnmar10 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:24 am
clarionite wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:51 pm
I must have missed the yelling at the gun counter part. There was nothing in what I read (unless I totally missed it) that said he was yelling. ...
You're not from around here are you.
Not sure where your here is. Lol

I’ve been in my here for 12 years. And on here for quite a few of those.

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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#43

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:30 pm

clarionite wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:09 pm
warnmar10 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:24 am
clarionite wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:51 pm
I must have missed the yelling at the gun counter part. There was nothing in what I read (unless I totally missed it) that said he was yelling. ...
You're not from around here are you.
Not sure where your here is. Lol

I’ve been in my here for 12 years. And on here for quite a few of those.
12 years? Then you are still not a Texan yet. :mrgreen:

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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#44

Post by DEB » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:50 pm

I think many of us gun carriers are our worst enemies. Go open carrying within a store, drink a soda you haven't paid for and start questioning the store's practices, by making a nuisance of one's self. Offer to pay for the soda you filched as well as the goods you have in your cart all the while filming your interaction with the store and Law Enforcement. I don't know, not really the ambassador for good will there, I might opinion. Have a highly publicized active shooting in a Walmart in El Paso and just looking to keep poking the bear and then complain? Just like that boy in Missouri. I know no Laws were broken, except for maybe that soda he pilfered, same as the boy who put on a vest and carried that AR 15 at the low ready. I ain't sayin keep quite and don't fight back, but why poke the bear? In good old California one could open carry as long as one didn't have a bullet in the pipe. Next thing you know, here comes the internet and everyone is filming them arguing with the Police, now California is one step from Venezuela. Just sayin...
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Re: Man trespassed for life from ALL Walmarts for OCing a holstered handgun

#45

Post by puma guy » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:58 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:30 pm
clarionite wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:09 pm
warnmar10 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:24 am
clarionite wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:51 pm
I must have missed the yelling at the gun counter part. There was nothing in what I read (unless I totally missed it) that said he was yelling. ...
You're not from around here are you.
Not sure where your here is. Lol

I’ve been in my here for 12 years. And on here for quite a few of those.
12 years? Then you are still not a Texan yet. :mrgreen:
I know that's in jest, but lots of folks from the United States and many others from foreign countries came to Texas and were only here a few days before they died at the Alamo. I doubt anyone would question if they were Texans. In fact if I remember my history there were only about a dozen "Texians" at the Alamo. It's maybe not the arrival in Texas that makes you one, but what drives you to come here.
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