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I live in a condo can the condo HOA forbid me from having guns. I have a CHL

I don't see how. Your condo is your home. If they have a valid posting they can keep you from carrying in the common areas, but you can still carry from your car to your home.

It sounds like the HOA people got together and thought it sounded like a good idea. Probably some MDA types, but non-the-less, it's not practical, and not enforceable IMO, as they are denying your 2a rights in your own home.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:It sounds like the HOA people got together and thought it sounded like a good idea. Probably some MDA types, but non-the-less, it's not practical, and not enforceable IMO, as they are denying your 2a rights in your own home.

Absent something like a legislative enactment authorizing such, is a private, nongovernmental organization prohibited from "denying your 2a rights?" Particularly when, as is likely, you were advised of the HOA's policies and perhaps even signed a piece of paper acknowledging and agreeing to abide by them -- a written contract in which one waives his right to have a gun in his home? Even if not the case with you, your post alone admits to the whole world your knowledge of the rule.

These condo HOA rules are generally a condition required of occupancy, their leverage being eviction if not followed. Of course an eviction gets an arm of government involved -- could the 2a prevent eviction after possibly long and expensive litigation?

I have just asked some good-faith questions which may deserve some attention, possibly by an attorney of your choice. The answer to your question may be, just may be, a little more difficult than the simple answers you have received thus far.

I offer no answers.

Jim

This sounds to me like one of those public policy issues, meaning that any such rule that a HOA makes would be unenforceable as a violation of public policy which allows for carry within your own home. I'd think that they lack any legal authority to do that. And that's not even considering that what they've effectively done is devalued your property as now you couldn't sell it to anyone lawfully exercising their 2A rights. I'd love to hear what an attorney specializing in that related area would say about it. Just my opinion of course.

b322da wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:It sounds like the HOA people got together and thought it sounded like a good idea. Probably some MDA types, but non-the-less, it's not practical, and not enforceable IMO, as they are denying your 2a rights in your own home.

Absent something like a legislative enactment authorizing such, is a private, nongovernmental organization prohibited from "denying your 2a rights?" Particularly when, as is likely, you were advised of the HOA's policies and perhaps even signed a piece of paper acknowledging and agreeing to abide by them -- a written contract in which one waives his right to have a gun in his home? Even if not the case with you, your post alone admits to the whole world your knowledge of the rule.

These condo HOA rules are generally a condition required of occupancy, their leverage being eviction if not followed. Of course an eviction gets an arm of government involved -- could the 2a prevent eviction after possibly long and expensive litigation?

I have just asked some good-faith questions which may deserve some attention, possibly by an attorney of your choice. The answer to your question may be, just may be, a little more difficult than the simple answers you have received thus far.

I offer no answers.

Jim

Similar issue is whether an apartment complex/landlord could ban guns in the complex including your private condo/apartment. Probably could by contract law, but as BD322a points out the enforcement would have to be civil (eviction, fine, lien, etc.). You could make an argument that self defense is a right (Heller) and contractual infringement therefore contrary to "public policy" which could be used to invalidate. Bit of a stretch...? EDIT TO ADD: Glockster beat me to it while I was typing.

Practically it's an issue of how are they going to find out, and what are they going to do about it? We're not talking a criminal offense here since 30.06 doesn't apply to/from your car to residence (not carrying under CHL).

tommyg wrote:I live in a condo can the condo HOA forbid me from having guns. I have a CHL

I've served on HOA boards:

HOAs have been slapped around for prohibiting flags and political signs (under certain conditions), which is a violation of the 1st amendment. I doubt that they can ban firearms in property that you own, which would be violating the 2nd, but never ran into that particular issue and never heard it come up.

Practical answer:
HOAs in Texas can mostly do what they want. The board is typically insured and indemnified so there is little personal risk in acting like a tyrant. They have the power of your money and the power of all your neighbors money via "special assessment". If they do something wrong, the typical way to deal with it is to comply first and take legal action second, otherwise they can make it pretty ugly. Some boards do really bad stuff and simply don't care, you can sue them, win, but you're essentially suing yourself and all of your neighbors.

Best defense against a bad HOA is to be an involved home owner or get on the board yourself. The next best option is to move to an uncontrolled property where you can't be told what to do with your own home.

As a private organization which may own land such as parks, pools, etc... the HOA may be able to post 30.06/30.07 signs. There will be an agenda item at our next HOA board meeting to post 30.07 within the common areas but to still allow concealed carry.

HOA's are not private organizations. They are made up of the home owners, thus the name Home Owners Association, (HOA)
Bylaws/rules are voted on by the home owners. Every condo has one vote. They usually have a board which is also elected by the home owners.
The board will make decisions on problems in between annual meetings. Their decisions are based on the bylaws. Or should be. If your HOA has banned guns in common areas I would get a lawyer and threaten them with a lawsuit. HOA's don't like lawsuits. What they don't know won't hurt them. I would think outside common areas are public and they can't ban guns in those areas. Now in common buildings like recreation rooms would be a different story. Any changes or additions to the bylaws has to be voted on by the home owners. Remember that and make sure you go to the HOA meetings.

House Bill 2999 "Relating to restrictive covenants regarding firearms or firearms ammunition." got stuck in House Calendars this last session so it was not passed. See analysis here: http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... 02999H.htm .
And a previous thread. viewtopic.php?f=133&t=77577&p=980988&hilit=hoa#p980984

jamminbutter wrote:As a private organization which may own land such as parks, pools, etc... the HOA may be able to post 30.06/30.07 signs. There will be an agenda item at our next HOA board meeting to post 30.07 within the common areas but to still allow concealed carry.

There was a recent Texas case dealing with HOAs and guns, but I don't recall the full style. The defendant was Chiarini or something like that. He was arrested and convicted of openly carrying a handgun in the common areas of his condo project. The conviction was overturned because all homeowners were also owners (joint tenants in common) of the common areas, thus he did not violate TPC §46.02.

This is not directly on point, but I question whether an association can adopt rules that deny owners of the ability to engage in legal activities on their own property. The case certainly indicates that a 30.07 sign would not be enforceable against a property owner. Getting one arrested could well result in a successful civil suit against the HOA and individual Board members for malicious prosecution.

Chas.

The Wall wrote:HOA's are not private organizations. They are made up of the home owners, thus the name Home Owners Association, (HOA)
Bylaws/rules are voted on by the home owners. Every condo has one vote. They usually have a board which is also elected by the home owners.
The board will make decisions on problems in between annual meetings. Their decisions are based on the bylaws. Or should be. If your HOA has banned guns in common areas I would get a lawyer and threaten them with a lawsuit. HOA's don't like lawsuits. What they don't know won't hurt them. I would think outside common areas are public and they can't ban guns in those areas. Now in common buildings like recreation rooms would be a different story. Any changes or additions to the bylaws has to be voted on by the home owners. Remember that and make sure you go to the HOA meetings.

Please provide the documentation behind your reasoning as to why an HOA is not a private organization.

It is no different than other non-profits who own premises. The initial indication from our lawyer is that the board can vote to post signs meeting the TPC requirements. This would not be a change to our bylaws but a board policy which does fall under our fiduciary duties.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

jamminbutter wrote:As a private organization which may own land such as parks, pools, etc... the HOA may be able to post 30.06/30.07 signs. There will be an agenda item at our next HOA board meeting to post 30.07 within the common areas but to still allow concealed carry.

This is not directly on point, but I question whether an association can adopt rules that deny owners of the ability to engage in legal activities on their own property. The case certainly indicates that a 30.07 sign would not be enforceable against a property owner. Getting one arrested could well result in a successful civil suit against the HOA and individual Board members for malicious prosecution.

Chas.

We are not seeking to deny rights for homeowners carrying upon their own property but upon HOA premises. I OC on my own property while doing yard work and the others board members better not even try to take that away.

jamminbutter wrote:We are not seeking to deny rights for homeowners carrying upon their own property but upon HOA premises.

So you are seeking to deny people their right to carry. Duly noted.

jamminbutter wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

jamminbutter wrote:As a private organization which may own land such as parks, pools, etc... the HOA may be able to post 30.06/30.07 signs. There will be an agenda item at our next HOA board meeting to post 30.07 within the common areas but to still allow concealed carry.

This is not directly on point, but I question whether an association can adopt rules that deny owners of the ability to engage in legal activities on their own property. The case certainly indicates that a 30.07 sign would not be enforceable against a property owner. Getting one arrested could well result in a successful civil suit against the HOA and individual Board members for malicious prosecution.

Chas.

We are not seeking to deny rights for homeowners carrying upon their own property but upon HOA premises. I OC on my own property while doing yard work and the others board members better not even try to take that away.

Now I'm even more confused. What does "HOA premises" mean, and how would that be much different than "own property" in the context of carrying a licensed self-protection weapon?