TexasCHLforum.com

OK, so this is my first big question post. Would really appreciate any and all help for a newbie to this forum (but not to shooting or CHL).

For my next pistol purchase, I am trying to decide between a Walther PPS or a Glock subcompact. I am leaning toward either the PPS (likely 9mm but maybe .40) or the Glock 27 .40 cal.

I already own a Glock 23 and love it. Also own and carry a S&W J-frame and a Ruger LCP, both of which I pocket carry often. I have a tuckable IWB holster for the S&W, but when carrying in this manner would prefer a semi-auto. I used to carry the G23 IWB all day long. But with my ever-expanding midsection, this is becoming less and less comfortable. Plus my more "professional" career comes with requirements of more "professional" dress - no more covering up my Glock with an untucked Hawaiian shirt during the business week. My fear is the Baby Glock won't be much more comfortable because it is the same width. I would certainly buy the G27 (not G26) because I already have a .40 Glock and can share mags and even some holsters. A LEO friend of mine does this with a G27 & G22.

I have fired the G27 and shoot it better than the S&W or Ruger, but not as well as my G23 (obviously). I have not fired the Walther PPS, but have held them and dry fired them at gun shows and gun stores and like the feel of the gun.

So here is my pro/con list. Y'all help me decide:

Glock 27
PROS:
1. Interchangeable with existing Glock 23 mags and holsters - plus same calibre ammo which I already know well (what I like and what I don't)
2. Familiarity with Glocks; would be no new gun "learning curve" at all. Fire a few rounds down the pipe to make sure it functions, and start carrying it. Would be plenty accurate enough and fully understand the battery of arms from day one.
3. Higher capacity magazine (9 rds vs. 6 in a PPS?)
CONS:
1. Thicker - this is my #1 complaint with my G23 (and even in some ways the S&W J-frame) is the thickness of the gun when carried IWB (remember, I have a some extra gut hanging over my belt line).
2. Semi redundant? Already own the G23 - would the G27 really be that much different?
3. May not easily slide into the pocket of tighter jeans/slacks in a pinch like I'm assuming the PPS would.

Walther PPS
PROS
1. THINNER - this is a HUGE factor - this is the one aspect both of my other IWB guns are missing
2. Adjustable backstraps & ambidextrous mag release are nice features that Glock does not offer.
3. Would give me a gun in 9mm which I don't currently own (buying a Glock 26 in 9mm would negate one of the major benefits to me personally of buying another Glock, so not really an option I'm considering).
4. Fills a niche need in my "arsenal" - more accurate (it would seem) than either of my "mouse guns" but easier to carry than my Glock 23 and easier to carry than a Glock 27, IMHO, because thin size allows easier tuckable IWB use.
CONS:
1. Another new gun, new brand, new caliber?, new holsters to buy (few even available), new ammo to buy, learning curve to become comfortable and proficient with the gun and try out different ammo (probably not long - but not a one-day thing like another Glock .40).
2. Lower capacity magazine - only 6 rounds (or 7 or 8, I'm confused) - is this really much improvement over my existing .38 wheel gun (5 rounds) or .380 auto (6 rounds), especially the 9mm version?
3. New guns only come with one magazine and additional mags are selling for $40 to $50 each OUCH!
4. Still a "new" gun design without the stellar track record of the Glock 27 - I'm still smarting a bit from my recall adventure with Elsie Pea. Seems holsters and possibly even night sights etc will still be hard to come by for a while.

TTT, as I am considering a similar purchase. The wife is getting her plastic, and I don’t have anything her size. I feel the Walther might fit us both.

Here is from someone who has a PPS (9mm) and has shot a G26 quite a bit. I have small hands, so I like the PPS better and it does conceal well in the pocket. As far as going with something you know.. if you strip the PPS down.. surprise.. you have a slim Glock (I am not a gunsmith, but the fire controls look VERY similar). I like the ambi mag release, some people don't. The PPS should come with TWO mags (6rd and 7rd for 9mm). The trigger is pretty decent and the gun has run 100% for me. It has been dead on center out of the box since round one. I would say find someone who has it in your area and shoot it. I would offer, but don't make it to Austin that often.

I had a dear friend tell me once that he hated to see the new Walthers come to the line for qualification in his CHL course. He knew immediately that he would be loaning someone a Glock 19 so they could complete the 50 round course.

I have no experience with Walthers.....but I trust what this fellow has to say about them

Jason

I have zero experience with the Walther. My G27 is one of my two normal carries (XD40 is the other), and I have no complaints whatsoever. I have very small hands and all of my pistols are .40 S&W.

I've never owned a PPS but I have had a Glock 26 and XD9 SC. IMO, the Glock is a little too thick and the PPS is a little too tall and long. If I had to choose between the two I'd go Glock because of reliablity, availability of aftermarket stuff, and simplicity.

To me, the perfect size is the Kel-tec PF9. I'm not a fan of Kel-tec but it's hard to beat the size of their PF9 and P3AT.

jbirds1210 wrote:I had a dear friend tell me once that he hated to see the new Walthers come to the line for qualification in his CHL course. He knew immediately that he would be loaning someone a Glock 19 so they could complete the 50 round course.

I have no experience with Walthers.....but I trust what this fellow has to say about them

Jason

Jason, was your friend discussing new Walthers generally - all makes/models - or the PPS specifically? I've heard of noobs having a lot of problems shooting/operating the ol' PPK design. But so far I've heard nothing but good reviews of the PPS. Only other "newer" Walther design I've read much about is the p99, which gets rave reviews from those who own it.

I'd love to know specifics if you have any ... mainly, are the CHL qualifying problems related to reliability of Walther brand, or ease of use & accuracy for new shooters?

Thanks,
Ryan

Ryan-

I was told that the problems were associated with the Walther brand. The "newer" models made by Smith? You will have to excuse my lack of knowledge.....I am only able to pass on what was told to me. My Dad carries one of the older models and has few problems with it.

Please let us know how it works out of you if that if Walther is the way you decide to go. They are nice looking little guns.

Jason

I suggest you consider a Kahr.

For a reliable gun that size, check out a Smith 3919 single stack 9mm semi auto, 3.5 inch harrel, decoker, the NYPD issue sidearm to detectives for years. PPS Walthers seem to have reliability issues. Glocks have AD issues. As far as I can tell, the 3913 has no issues other that it is a little heavier.

The 3919 addresses one of the biggest mistakes ever made by Walther, the elimination of the optional decoker and the DA/SA AS trigger found on the 10-shot P99 Compact. On that weapon comparable Glock 26, the Walther PPS utilizes the QA, a Glock type trigger. JMHO.

AEA wrote:I suggest you consider a Kahr.

Thanks AEA. But I've "been there, done that" and will not do so again. I don't intend to demean a brand of firearms that many people believe in and use daily, but my experience with Kahr (a PM40) was horrible and I doubt I'll ever own one of their products again.

After about 6 months of use (don't know round counts, but probably in the 700-1000 range), I started getting regular jams, failure-to-eject and all sorts of other problems. This was beyond the one-round-per-box jams I had come to expect with this gun. At one point, the gun would not complete a full magazine without multiple problems. After discussing this with knowledgeable gun professionals at gun shops, ranges, gunsmiths etc., I gained the impression that the polymer used in the Kahr PM series guns is not strong enough and over time - especially with a tiny gun in .40 cal like the PM40 - will actually expand or swell to the point of affecting proper recycling of the large steel slide. So I sent the gun back to Kahr for repair. Took more than a month, but finally received the gun back - no explanation or any other decent customer service at all. I took the gun to the range and ran half a box of ammo through it just to be sure it was "fixed" before trading it at a gun show (I don't want transferring a known "problem gun" to another citizen on my conscience - Kahr says its fixed and I verified it as best I could before dumping it).

While the Kahr was away for repair, I bought my S&W J-frame. I had sold a Charter Arms .38 to buy the Kahr, and decided to go back to a gun type I KNEW would go bang every time I pulled the trigger. On a gun I carry regularly, the most important aspect above all else for me is reliability. This is why I will NEVER be without at least one J-frame size wheel gun again. If all else fails - I know that gun will go bang and there are multiple ways to carry it concealed.

All this having been said, I continually run into people who LOVE their Kahrs, but 9 out of 10 of these folks love the steel-frame guns. If I was to ever try a Kahr again, it would be the steel-frame pocket gun. But my J-frame Airweight is lighter, carries only one fewer round, and I actually now shoot better with it than the old Kahr (with a lot of practice). So I see no real benefit to a steel-frame Kahr.

A Walther or Glock, on the other hand, offer improved accuracy and firepower over my J-frame. And if the reliability is good (a given on the Glock; a good possibility on the Walther), then the improved accuracy will make the addition of one of these guns to my carry options worthwhile - whereas a Kahr steel-frame just wouldn't offer much improvement to me personally over my J-frame revolver.

casingpoint wrote:For a reliable gun that size, check out a Smith 3919 single stack 9mm semi auto, 3.5 inch harrel, decoker, the NYPD issue sidearm to detectives for years. PPS Walthers seem to have reliability issues. Glocks have AD issues. As far as I can tell, the 3913 has no issues other that it is a little heavier.

The 3919 addresses one of the biggest mistakes ever made by Walther, the elimination of the optional decoker and the DA/SA AS trigger found on the 10-shot P99 Compact. On that weapon comparable Glock 26, the Walther PPS utilizes the QA, a Glock type trigger. JMHO.

casingpoint, that's an interesting comparison I hadn't thought of. I have no range time with those older metal frame S&W semi-autos, but have always heard great things about them. Is 3919 discontinued? Couldn't find it anywhere, but I seem to remember it being very similar to this gun 908 from S&W web site ... http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... y_rn=15712 . Does this one look similar?

Width wise, this seems in between the PPS & Glock. Would you agree (I'm assuming you've had time with this gun?)

I also have heard varying reliability issues about PPS, but can't find solid confirmation of such - just internet rumors at the moment.

As for AD with a Glock ... I have owned my Glock 23 for more than 10 years and carried it extensively for much of that time. I for one do not believe in the concept of "accidental discharge" on a modern firearm. The truth is almost always "unintentional" or "negligent" discharge. That being said, we've all had an "oops" or "oh _______" moment if we've been around guns long enough. But I firmly DISbelieve the Glock is any more prone to ND than any other quality handgun. In fact, both of the NDs I've had in my lifetime have been with 1911-style actions (one a Colt Mustang .380, the other a Kimber custom with a hair trigger) and both were ENTIRELY my fault. If your gun goes bang when you didn't want it to or expect it to, then 99.9% of the time you can chalk it up to user error/carelessness.

jbirds1210 wrote:Ryan-

I was told that the problems were associated with the Walther brand. The "newer" models made by Smith? You will have to excuse my lack of knowledge.....I am only able to pass on what was told to me. My Dad carries one of the older models and has few problems with it.

Please let us know how it works out of you if that if Walther is the way you decide to go. They are nice looking little guns.

Jason

Thanks Jason. I'll be sure to post my final decisions and results. Some of the remaining "unknowns" with Walther PPS may prompt me to hold off on a decision for a while until I can find more solid info on the PPS.

I'd say based on your scenario the pros of the Glock outweigh the cons of the Glock and the pros of the PPS. I will admit to being a little ignorant about the PPS but I know the track record and functionality of the Glocks. You already have mags that will work, you are familiar with how they work and function and it's a caliber you are familiar with. Sounds like an easy decision to me.

i would say that you should go with the glock. You have the mags, you have the muscle memory. thats what i would do, you can have multi guns and the same clips. very handy in a survival situation.