How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

A meeting place for CHL instructors

Moderators: carlson1, Crossfire

User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#16

Post by WildBill »

jmorris wrote:
WildBill wrote: As jimd1981 posted, it is referenced in the Texas Administrative Code Title 37:
(b) A student must score at least 70% on the written examination and shooting proficiency examination, in order to establish proficiency. A student will have three opportunities to pass the written examination and shooting proficiency examination.
https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/r ... ch=6&rl=11
Thanks. It would have be nice if they pointed this out at the instructor class.
:tiphat:
NRA Endowment Member
User avatar

troglodyte
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1314
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:16 pm
Location: Hockley County
Contact:

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#17

Post by troglodyte »

I was under the impression, and I don't know where I thought I read it or heard it, that if the student failed either test the third time that they had to retake the entire class. After reading the regs linked above it doesn't say what happens after they fail the third time except you report it.

Because of what I thought I have always told the student that if they fail a second time that I would highly discourage them from taking it a third time until they had sufficient instruction to pass, whether they did it with me or some other arrangement.

Now I'm curious as to what is required to get your LTC if you fail either test the third time. What is the procedure?
User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#18

Post by WildBill »

troglodyte wrote:I was under the impression, and I don't know where I thought I read it or heard it, that if the student failed either test the third time that they had to retake the entire class. After reading the regs linked above it doesn't say what happens after they fail the third time except you report it.

Because of what I thought I have always told the student that if they fail a second time that I would highly discourage them from taking it a third time until they had sufficient instruction to pass, whether they did it with me or some other arrangement.

Now I'm curious as to what is required to get your LTC if you fail either test the third time. What is the procedure?
I would think they would start out the same as they did the first time and take the class.
NRA Endowment Member
User avatar

OldCurlyWolf
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:00 am

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#19

Post by OldCurlyWolf »

I am in the process of helping one of my granddaughters get her LTC. The first thing I did was get her an instructor for safety and shooting. The Basics. After training from a .22 lr to a .45 ACP, she settled on the 40 S&W. Got her a Springfield XDS.

She is now proficient enough to pass the test both safety wise and accuracy wise. I also just bought her 500 rounds of practice ammunition. One of the next things we will do is go over handling misfires, hangfires, stovepipes, etc. And reiterating safety. I also plan on training her on my revolvers and my two Pistols. Both are different from what she has already shot. Broaden her range so to speak.

The fun begins
:evil2:
I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

Don’t pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he’ll just kill you.

thetexan
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 769
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:18 pm

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#20

Post by thetexan »

As per the DPS, 3 times.

I've had three fail. I tell students up front that they get three tries. I tell them that after that they will have to sign up for a complete new class to try again but that I personally will not even then allow them to do that unless they show me documentation of taking shooting instruction from me or some other qualified instructor in the interim.

So far everyone who failed the first round made it in round two.

Tex
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA Pistol Instructor, CFI, CFII, MEI Instructor Pilot
User avatar

Scott B.
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 8
Posts: 1457
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:46 am
Location: Harris County

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#21

Post by Scott B. »

I'll mention at the start that if a student has a problem with either test, we'll work on it together, be it one-on-one tutoring or whatever it takes. I haven't had any fail, yet. A few have come much too close on shooting proficiency.

What I did for all my early classes was track questions that students were missing. It helped point out areas that I needed to strengthen in my presentation.

I've not been at it long, but I've enjoyed every class. Even the challenging ones (usually venue driven) have been great learning experiences.
LTC / SSC Instructor. NRA - Instructor, CRSO, Life Member.
Sig pistol/rifle & Glock armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT

twomillenium
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 1691
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:42 pm
Location: houston area

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#22

Post by twomillenium »

Scott B. wrote:I'll mention at the start that if a student has a problem with either test, we'll work on it together, be it one-on-one tutoring or whatever it takes. I haven't had any fail, yet. A few have come much too close on shooting proficiency.

What I did for all my early classes was track questions that students were missing. It helped point out areas that I needed to strengthen in my presentation.

I've not been at it long, but I've enjoyed every class. Even the challenging ones (usually venue driven) have been great learning experiences.
I still check for most commonly missed questions. (I rarely have a student miss more than 3.) The only students that I have had fail the written test are those who had a literacy problem, I had one who just got really nervous about taking test. Funny thing was he shot 250. For those who don't pass the first proficiency test, I have been successful in talking them into further instruction (their choice of whom or where) before trying the second test. I have only had one who had to test 3 times. The second prof. test was a disqualification due to safety reasons and that was taken care of that day. ( somehow I do not think she will forget that safety class)
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA pistol instructor, RSO, NRA Endowment Life , TSRA, Glock enthusiast (tho I have others)
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to add it to a fruit salad.

You will never know another me, this could be good or not so good, but it is still true.
User avatar

Beiruty
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 9655
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: Allen, Texas

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#23

Post by Beiruty »

In case the student progress to success is hopeless, refund the class fee and say have a good day..
Beiruty,
United we stand, dispersed we falter
2014: NRA Endowment lifetime member
User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 17787
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#24

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

twomillenium wrote:
Scott B. wrote:I'll mention at the start that if a student has a problem with either test, we'll work on it together, be it one-on-one tutoring or whatever it takes. I haven't had any fail, yet. A few have come much too close on shooting proficiency.

What I did for all my early classes was track questions that students were missing. It helped point out areas that I needed to strengthen in my presentation.

I've not been at it long, but I've enjoyed every class. Even the challenging ones (usually venue driven) have been great learning experiences.
I still check for most commonly missed questions. (I rarely have a student miss more than 3.) The only students that I have had fail the written test are those who had a literacy problem, I had one who just got really nervous about taking test. Funny thing was he shot 250. For those who don't pass the first proficiency test, I have been successful in talking them into further instruction (their choice of whom or where) before trying the second test. I have only had one who had to test 3 times. The second prof. test was a disqualification due to safety reasons and that was taken care of that day. ( somehow I do not think she will forget that safety class)
I would really like to post the three most often missed questions so we instructors could discuss them, compare notes, and decide on ways to better present that material. Unfortunately, doing so would reveal the test questions. Oh well . . .

I'm not suggesting that most students miss certain questions. Of those that do miss a question or two, three seem to be the most common and I make sure I cover them clearly.

Chas.
User avatar

Scott B.
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 8
Posts: 1457
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:46 am
Location: Harris County

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#25

Post by Scott B. »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I would really like to post the three most often missed questions so we instructors could discuss them, compare notes, and decide on ways to better present that material. Unfortunately, doing so would reveal the test questions. Oh well . . .
Chas.
Perhaps consider a private forum for instructors? There's at least one private forum on the board already. Only issue would be vetting people allowed into the forum, and all that takes is time and a moderator checking credentials.

There's some questions I haven't asked because of google search bots.
LTC / SSC Instructor. NRA - Instructor, CRSO, Life Member.
Sig pistol/rifle & Glock armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT
User avatar

Scott B.
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 8
Posts: 1457
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:46 am
Location: Harris County

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#26

Post by Scott B. »

twomillenium wrote:
Scott B. wrote:I'll mention at the start that if a student has a problem with either test, we'll work on it together, be it one-on-one tutoring or whatever it takes. I haven't had any fail, yet. A few have come much too close on shooting proficiency.

What I did for all my early classes was track questions that students were missing. It helped point out areas that I needed to strengthen in my presentation.

I've not been at it long, but I've enjoyed every class. Even the challenging ones (usually venue driven) have been great learning experiences.
I still check for most commonly missed questions. (I rarely have a student miss more than 3.) The only students that I have had fail the written test are those who had a literacy problem, I had one who just got really nervous about taking test. Funny thing was he shot 250. For those who don't pass the first proficiency test, I have been successful in talking them into further instruction (their choice of whom or where) before trying the second test. I have only had one who had to test 3 times. The second prof. test was a disqualification due to safety reasons and that was taken care of that day. ( somehow I do not think she will forget that safety class)
That's a good point about spot checks. I will also mention that if a student has issues with taking either test to talk to me during a break and I'll accommodate them.

What really helped me was auditing a couple of other instructors after I got certified. They were happy to let me and got some free help on the line. Got some great tips and some new approaches. Steal from the best is a pretty good mantra in teaching.
LTC / SSC Instructor. NRA - Instructor, CRSO, Life Member.
Sig pistol/rifle & Glock armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT

Texsquatch
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 576
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:55 pm
Location: Central Texas

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#27

Post by Texsquatch »

BCGlocker wrote:
zimmerdesignz wrote:
RossA wrote:Never had a student fail the test. If they fail to pass such an easy test, they will really be dangerous with a gun.
I'm not an instructor but I agree. During my test, there were some real "special people". Lets just say know gun safety, don't look down the barrel at a jam. Don't buy a new gun you have never shot and are unfamiliar with and head off to the test.
One of my closest friend, a fellow LTC instructor, told me he started to wear his Kevlar vest with big red lettering "Instructor" on it when he teaches LTC Classes. He told me in two years of teaching, he had two loaded gun pointed at him already. As he stated: “Would it be ironic, after 30 years in the Army, retired as a lieutenant colonel, having kicking down doors, jump out of planes and helicopters and get killed at a LTC class I was teaching?" is it really that bad (I am a new LTC instructor getting ready to teach my first class)?
Sorry, I found this funny. Were the big red letters necessary? I think the Kevlar vest was good move, but would they need further clarification that he was an instructor and not to be shot at?
User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 17787
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#28

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

Scott B. wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:I would really like to post the three most often missed questions so we instructors could discuss them, compare notes, and decide on ways to better present that material. Unfortunately, doing so would reveal the test questions. Oh well . . .
Chas.
Perhaps consider a private forum for instructors? There's at least one private forum on the board already. Only issue would be vetting people allowed into the forum, and all that takes is time and a moderator checking credentials.

There's some questions I haven't asked because of google search bots.
The only private forum is for the Moderators. A private LTC instructor forum would not be workable because there's no realistic way for me to verify that people granted access are LTC instructors.

Chas.

twomillenium
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 1691
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:42 pm
Location: houston area

Re: How to Handle Student's Failed Proficient Test

#29

Post by twomillenium »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
twomillenium wrote:
Scott B. wrote:I'll mention at the start that if a student has a problem with either test, we'll work on it together, be it one-on-one tutoring or whatever it takes. I haven't had any fail, yet. A few have come much too close on shooting proficiency.

What I did for all my early classes was track questions that students were missing. It helped point out areas that I needed to strengthen in my presentation.

I've not been at it long, but I've enjoyed every class. Even the challenging ones (usually venue driven) have been great learning experiences.
I still check for most commonly missed questions. (I rarely have a student miss more than 3.) The only students that I have had fail the written test are those who had a literacy problem, I had one who just got really nervous about taking test. Funny thing was he shot 250. For those who don't pass the first proficiency test, I have been successful in talking them into further instruction (their choice of whom or where) before trying the second test. I have only had one who had to test 3 times. The second prof. test was a disqualification due to safety reasons and that was taken care of that day. ( somehow I do not think she will forget that safety class)
I would really like to post the three most often missed questions so we instructors could discuss them, compare notes, and decide on ways to better present that material. Unfortunately, doing so would reveal the test questions. Oh well . . .

I'm not suggesting that most students miss certain questions. Of those that do miss a question or two, three seem to be the most common and I make sure I cover them clearly.

Chas.
LOL, I bet I know which 3 your talking about. That is one reason to read the whole question and ALL the answers.
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA pistol instructor, RSO, NRA Endowment Life , TSRA, Glock enthusiast (tho I have others)
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to add it to a fruit salad.

You will never know another me, this could be good or not so good, but it is still true.
Post Reply

Return to “Instructors' Corner”