Dallas LEO dies after Friday traffic shootout

[NcongruNt]

I find it bizarre that he had an AR-15.

I don't see that in the story.

And Channel 5 news at 10:00 last night indicated BG used AR-15 ...

[lrb111]

I find it bizarre that he had an AR-15.

I don't see that in the story.

And Channel 5 news at 10:00 last night indicated BG used AR-15 ...

Thanks, I had gone straight to the story...

[KRM45]

I also received trauma scene training (certified fire fighter) and most cops I worked with had less training than I. I knew I was a amateur when compared to the pros(real paramedics). Its all relative

As a firefighter you should know that Fire and EMS won't go into an active shooting situation and retrieve an injured person. The officers had no choice but to move him.

I don't know the details, but I doubt the method of transport had anything to do with this officer's death. To me the implication that it did is distasteful.

[stevie_d_64]

As a firefighter you should know that Fire and EMS won't go into an active shooting situation and retrieve an injured person. The officers had no choice but to move him.

I am, and this decision to move and transport the wounded officer out of a firefight situation was the correct call...Not to say Fire/EMS wouldn't get in there and take care of him, it was the correct call to make, and I would support it...

All in all a rather bad day all around...

The ramifications of this shooting incident are going to be felt for a while I am afraid...

[txinvestigator]

From what I seen of the video and from my experience the officers had no choice but to exit their patrol car quickly - they were nose to nose to the suspect. It seemed to me that the "crash" was what changed the felony stop.

That's what I thought at first, but we don't know how the position of the vehicles changed once shooting started. At least one police vehicle left the scene.

[carlson1]

From what I seen of the video and from my experience the officers had no choice but to exit their patrol car quickly - they were nose to nose to the suspect. It seemed to me that the "crash" was what changed the felony stop.

That's what I thought at first, but we don't know how the position of the vehicles changed once shooting started. At least one police vehicle left the scene.

TX I am sure you have visited this sight before, but the way it reads it Cpl. Nix was shot and then the suspect drove another mile and wrecked out.
http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=18822 If I am not mistaken only the departments may submit the information to ODMP.


Senior Corporal Mark Nix was shot and killed when he attempted to apprehend a murder suspect.

Corporal Nix and his partner had spotted the car of a homicide suspect driving down the street and had pulled it over. The suspect opened fire, shooting from inside his car, at Corporal Nix, striking him in the chest, neck and leg. Rush-hour traffic prevented ambulances from promptly responding, so another officer drove the officer to Parkland Memorial Hospital where he succumbed to his injuries.

The suspect took off and after a short chase on Mockingbird Lane, the vehicle crashed in 4100 block of Bernal Drive, ending up nose to nose with a patrol car. After an approximate two hour stand-off, Dallas SWAT rushed the car and took the suspect into custody. He was also taken to Parkland Memorial Hospital for treatment of gunshot wounds.

Senior Corporal Nix had been a member of the Dallas Police Department for just under seven years. He was a veteran of the United States Marine Corps and had served in Desert Storm. He is survived by his parents and fiancee.

[Liberty]

I do know that you cant' tell how long Life flight will take until you call them.

As an LEO I called Life Flight twice. I do know that you will not get Life Flight faster than you can an ambulance unless you are many miles away from a hospital. It is easier for an ambulance to travel 10 miles than Life Flight 10 miles.

Generally the whole idea of calling life flight is not to get the patient to a hospital faster, but to get the patient to a trauma center in a reasonable time.

The initial report of this was that an ambulance couldn't get there because of the all the traffic. That is why I suggested Life flite Seems strange that the police were able to get there and out again without problems. Sounds like the Traffic excuse was just that. As I have said before I am not familiar with the area. but just because a hospital is there doesn't mean that you will get qualified care there. most hospitals are not equiped to handle trauma cases. I've worked accidents literally across the street from a hospital where life flight was called to fly to a hospital 50 miles away.. The reasoning being that the specialist needed will be on duty. Good correct medical care is typically more important than fast medical care.

There is an assumption here that the sooner the patient gets to the hospital the better off he is.. What we should be thinking is that the sooner the patient gets proper medical help the be better of the patient will be. In this case Medical help didn't start until the patient got to the hospital. While I don't mean to be second guessing this officers treatment I'm concerned from what I read here that sometimes calls are made because in the name of speed instead of good medical practice.

I just realized though, that I may be making assumptions on the quality of the Dallas EMTs that isn't true.. My assumption is that the EMTs are highly qualified. They typically are in most of the departments I'm familiar with. Things may be different in Dallas and the police dept is probably very aware of their limitations. The Ambulance/EMT service may just be glorified bus drivers. In that case all bets are off.

[carlson1]

I do know that you cant' tell how long Life flight will take until you call them.

As an LEO I called Life Flight twice. I do know that you will not get Life Flight faster than you can an ambulance unless you are many miles away from a hospital. It is easier for an ambulance to travel 10 miles than Life Flight 10 miles.

Generally the whole idea of calling life flight is not to get the patient to a hospital faster, but to get the patient to a trauma center in a reasonable time.

The initial report of this was that an ambulance couldn't get there because of the all the traffic. That is why I suggested Life flite Seems strange that the police were able to get there and out again without problems. Sounds like the Traffic excuse was just that. As I have said before I am not familiar with the area. but just because a hospital is there doesn't mean that you will get qualified care there. most hospitals are not equiped to handle trauma cases. I've worked accidents literally across the street from a hospital where life flight was called to fly to a hospital 50 miles away.. The reasoning being that the specialist needed will be on duty. Good correct medical care is typically more important than fast medical care.

There is an assumption here that the sooner the patient gets to the hospital the better off he is.. What we should be thinking is that the sooner the patient gets proper medical help the be better of the patient will be. In this case Medical help didn't start until the patient got to the hospital. While I don't mean to be second guessing this officers treatment I'm concerned from what I read here that sometimes calls are made because in the name of speed instead of good medical practice.

I just realized though, that I may be making assumptions on the quality of the Dallas EMTs that isn't true.. My assumption is that the EMTs are highly qualified. They typically are in most of the departments I'm familiar with. Things may be different in Dallas and the police dept is probably very aware of their limitations. The Ambulance/EMT service may just be glorified bus drivers. In that case all bets are off.

I would suggest that Parkland in Dallas IS THE HOSPITAL for trauma. I would also suggest that the EMT's are very qualified. The decison made to transport would have been correct (IMO) and I doubt the transport made a life and death difference. You would have to take a vote from other LEO or retired LEO, but I am voting for my partner to get me there in THIS SITUATION AND LOCATION.

[stevie_d_64]

Most Fire/EMT SOP's are similar in regards to operating in conjunction or response to Police incidences where shootings are involved...

Simply put, we wait till someone from law enforcement tells us to "go"...

We'll know that protocol is in effect from the time we get the call to respond, and we are usually told an area where we can stage nearby, if the situation is still "hot"...

I'm sure emotions were not playing in this where the officers (who were already on top of the situation), and EMS was probably on its way, that the officer who was shot, that it was determined to be more expedient to transport in that manner than wait for EMS...

I believe (knowing what we know) they did the best they could...I'm not going to throw rocks at any of it...

[carlson1]

I believe (knowing what we know) they did the best they could...I'm not going to throw rocks at any of it...

[Liberty]

I would suggest that Parkland in Dallas IS THE HOSPITAL for trauma. I would also suggest that the EMT's are very qualified. The decison made to transport would have been correct (IMO) and I doubt the transport made a life and death difference. You would have to take a vote from other LEO or retired LEO, but I am voting for my partner to get me there in THIS SITUATION AND LOCATION.

Its becoming obvious that we are all speculating some. while some are under assumption that the patient was at the scene of the stand off and firefight. I think he was a mile away, maybe just an assumption. While others might think its bad form to critique such things. I only hope to cause thought if this happens to anyone here. I admitedly don't have the facts.. I don't know how the patient was doing, what the scene was like, or what the ETA for professional help was. What I do know is that rushing a trauma patient to a hospital in a passenger car rather than waiting for the professionals is generally a bad idea. Whether it is in this specific case or not, I don't know. I don't have all the all the facts. but I do know it is at least a possibilty that the officer made things worse by taking on the responsibility of transporting his buddy. However I also suspect that you are right, that in reality it probably didn't matter.

[txinvestigator]

I would suggest that Parkland in Dallas IS THE HOSPITAL for trauma. I would also suggest that the EMT's are very qualified. The decison made to transport would have been correct (IMO) and I doubt the transport made a life and death difference. You would have to take a vote from other LEO or retired LEO, but I am voting for my partner to get me there in THIS SITUATION AND LOCATION.

Its becoming obvious that we are all speculating some. while some are under assumption that the patient was at the scene of the stand off and firefight. I think he was a mile away, maybe just an assumption. While others might think its bad form to critique such things. I only hope to cause thought if this happens to anyone here. I admitedly don't have the facts.. I don't know how the patient was doing, what the scene was like, or what the ETA for professional help was. What I do know is that rushing a trauma patient to a hospital in a passenger car rather than waiting for the professionals is generally a bad idea. Whether it is in this specific case or not, I don't know. I don't have all the all the facts. but I do know it is at least a possibilty that the officer made things worse by taking on the responsibility of transporting his buddy. However I also suspect that you are right, that in reality it probably didn't matter.

I know the area. Parkland is the Trauma center. He was at the hospital quicker than an ambulance could have reached him, and before the helo could have been air born. I have also been on the street as a cop. My partner dang well better not let me bleed out on the street.

I have edited this before I submitted it so I don't get booted. Your arrogance and judgment without knowing the facts nor ever serving as a LEO are quite aggravating. You are wrong in this case, just accept it.

[carlson1]

Guys I am going to go ahead and lock this thread. It is obvious WE all have deep feelings about what is wrong verses right. It is easy to look back, but the truth is we just remember Cpl. Mark Nix as a hero not because of how he died, but because of how he served his Country and his City.