After tragic events, a time for ACTION

CWOOD · Post by **CWOOD** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:00 pm

I have read, but already knew, how profoundly saddened the good people on this forum were upon learning of the tragic events at Virginia Tech today. I join in that sorrow. But, don't let our grief paralyze us into inaction and defensiveness. I do not mean to be callous but...

Let us use this time to respond proactively to the gun control hype which is sure to follow. The first thing we can do, TONIGHT OR TOMORROW, is to all write to letters to the editors of our respective newspapers. In these letters we can advance the notion that had just ONE student or faculty member been permitted to possess a handgun for self defense, the bloody toll of this day would have been greatly diminished. The fact that the Virginia legislature just defeated a bill which would have permitted this practice and that the university itself reiterated its pro-ban stance so that those on campus would "feel safer", confirms this horrible irony.

Let's make people realize that the most tragic homicidal rampages in recent history happened in places where possession of firearms by "law abiding" citizens are prohibited and that ONLY THE CRIMINALS were armed in those locations...and the criminals know this. If folks think about it, rather than just 'feel' about it, schools, universities, post offices, California day cares, airlines,and courthouses are where criminals choose to commit their heinous acts because they KNOW that they will not have to confront the unknown armed law abiding citizen.

Then, let's contact our legislators to let them know that we will not cower in shame as a result of this event because we were not part of the problem. We can, however, be part of the solution.

I know that there is a limited amount that we can do but we cannot afford to let this be used against us. We cannot just say, " Oh, boy, here comes another buch of gun control legislation". We must take what steps we can to not let this be used as a club against us. Let us prepare ourselves for the battle which will come.

I invite additions and commentary. I know that I have not expressed my thoughts as well as one might, but I wanted to get something out there to to help direct us to act rather than just feel and react. I urge those better able to help refine this message for us all.

Thanks and God Bless.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:08 pm

Nice post. I would add that our responses to this should be well thought out, rational and factual.

We add fuel to the antis when we give misinformation and react without thinking.

There is going to be a lot of finger pointing in the next few days, much by people who have few, if any facts regarding the incident or in laws, critical incident managment, victim mentality, etc.

HotRod68Camaro · Post by **HotRod68Camaro** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:58 pm

i like the idea, i am pretty busy but i think if one person types something up that everybody can email there would be alot more people involved.

ScubaSigGuy · Post by **ScubaSigGuy** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:00 pm

I too am sad that such a tragedy happened. We cannot however let the media and their sensationalized reports sway public opinion against our 2A rights.

TheRising · Post by **TheRising** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:20 pm

I said this in the other thread but figured I should bring it over here.

Remember to contact your alma mater's Presidents and Directors of Police Departments.

I wrote up a short list of a proposed process that would allow a student to carry concealed on campus. Let me know if you think anything should be added or taken away. I have already emailed the President of Penn State (my alma mater) and also the Director of the PD with a copy of my first post from the other thread. However, I want to send this along too. Thanks for your help and let me know if you need me to email anyone or write something up. My father has an incredible way with words and I am sure he will help us in this cause (me and him were yelling on the phone with eachother today about this...we are both livid at this entire event).

-Students must go through proper channels to first obtain their CHLs (this includes any necessary monetary obligations to state or local governing bodies including any necessary classes to obtain the license)

-Students must then participate in a month long class given at the school of attendance. This class will cover the law and scenarios extensively. The student will be continually warned of the consequences of showing their guns. They will also be given instruction on how to use their weapon. This class will cost the student out of their own pocket and will not be good for any credit. If a student can not pay, he/she will be allowed to volunteer their time to the university. The student will need to pass both a written test on the laws of their state, their university and must pass a shooting skills test.

-Students will be made to sign a "contract" with their university that outlines their responsibilities as a concealed handgun carrier.

-Students caught showing their gun (unless in a defensive life threatening situation) on campus will be subject to prosecution at both the state and university level. A suspension of the student or probation is the first step and a possible forced withdrawal from the semester. Harsh consequences breed students willing to follow the rules.

-Students found drinking at "house parties" or "dorm parties" when they are armed will be punished in the most severe way, usually expulsion.

kauboy · Post by **kauboy** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:33 pm

TheRising wrote: -Students must then participate in a month long class given at the school of attendance. This class will cover the law and scenarios extensively. The student will be continually warned of the consequences of showing their guns. They will also be given instruction on how to use their weapon. This class will cost the student out of their own pocket and will not be good for any credit. If a student can not pay, he/she will be allowed to volunteer their time to the university. The student will need to pass both a written test on the laws of their state, their university and must pass a shooting skills test.

-Students will be made to sign a "contract" with their university that outlines their responsibilities as a concealed handgun carrier.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but these two could actually lead to more problems.
First, you would effectively inform the entire student body as to who is armed by having them all congregate in a classroom together.
Secondly, I don't think we need any kind of permanent record kept about which students carry, and which don't. This would be published by the first activist paper that could get their hands on it.

Good suggestions, but I think concealed should remain concealed, even at a university.

TheRising · Post by **TheRising** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:41 pm

kauboy wrote:
TheRising wrote: -Students must then participate in a month long class given at the school of attendance. This class will cover the law and scenarios extensively. The student will be continually warned of the consequences of showing their guns. They will also be given instruction on how to use their weapon. This class will cost the student out of their own pocket and will not be good for any credit. If a student can not pay, he/she will be allowed to volunteer their time to the university. The student will need to pass both a written test on the laws of their state, their university and must pass a shooting skills test.

-Students will be made to sign a "contract" with their university that outlines their responsibilities as a concealed handgun carrier.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but these two could actually lead to more problems.
First, you would effectively inform the entire student body as to who is armed by having them all congregate in a classroom together.
Secondly, I don't think we need any kind of permanent record kept about which students carry, and which don't. This would be published by the first activist paper that could get their hands on it.

Good suggestions, but I think concealed should remain concealed, even at a university.

Understandable. However, the "contracts" are stricly confidential and the classes could easily be guarded. You have students confidentially sign up at the University Police Department. Once a class is set in stone, you email only those students who have signed up for the class, effectively keeping everything confidential.

The contract will state that the students' identities will be kept confidential and the records destroyed after the student graduates. The records could be kept by the University PD or the Head office of the University.

That should take care of those good objections. You definitely had me on my toes though....

You have to understand that we are working on gaining ground on which none of us are presently allowed to walk on armed. You have to be willing to give a little when you take a little with the liberal left of the university scene.

maximus2161 · Post by **maximus2161** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:55 pm

You guys in DFW ever listen Lars Larson on 1080AM?

He had some big dog from the Brady campaign on his show. He was pushing more restrictiona and bans. Larson asked for examples of what good the ban did and stuff. The guy couldnt answer anything. Plus he didnt understand firearm sales very well! Larson also had a female doctor on the show who also supports CHL. Her parents were killed in the Luby's shooting I believe.

So its nice there are pro gun folks coming to the defense!

Mike1951 · Post by **Mike1951** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:25 am

maximus2161 wrote:Larson also had a female doctor on the show who also supports CHL. Here parents were killed in the Luby's shooting I believe.

New to these parts, pardner?

Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp is the one person most responsible for Texas passing the original CHL law and as a state legislator for improving it along the way.

She is held in the highest regard and we all hope she runs for higher office.

maximus2161 · Post by **maximus2161** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:29 am

maybe that was her. I didnt catch the name of the person on the show. I just caught the last bit. And no, not new to these parts. :)

I am with you on her running for higher office!

packina45 · Post by **packina45** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:43 am

Sorry, I still don't like it.

Bottom line, take the university OUT of the equation. If a student qualifes for a state CHL permit, then that student should be allowed to carry concealed on campus.

No ifs, ands, or buts.

No registration with campus police, no "special classes", no bull. The student has a legal permit to carry, that should be enough.

We too often forget what the Second Amendment is all about. It doesn't GRANT us a right, it insures that the Government can't INFRINGE on that right. The right itself is one of those INALIENABLE rights the founding fathers talked about.

I've heard some say that college kids are "too young".

Average age of a college kid: 18-24.

Average age of a soldier "boots in the sand" in the war on terror: 18-24.

They're old enough to die for their country, but not old enough to defend themselves responsibly? I don't think so.

glocklvr · Post by **glocklvr** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:17 am

I completely agree with the effort and have seen the need for CHL on campus for a very long time but I would remove the word student from the equation and simply state CHL permitted on campus no if's and's or but's if you have a valid CHL and can justify being on campus you should be allowed to be armed as long as your activities are legal.

flintknapper · Post by **flintknapper** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:31 am

packina40 wrote:Sorry, I still don't like it.

Bottom line, take the university OUT of the equation. If a student qualifes for a state CHL permit, then that student should be allowed to carry concealed on campus.

No ifs, ands, or buts.

No registration with campus police, no "special classes", no bull. The student has a legal permit to carry, that should be enough.

We too often forget what the Second Amendment is all about. It doesn't GRANT us a right, it insures that the Government can't INFRINGE on that right. The right itself is one of those INALIENABLE rights the founding fathers talked about.

I've heard some say that college kids are "too young".

Average age of a college kid: 18-24.

Average age of a soldier "boots in the sand" in the war on terror: 18-24.

They're old enough to die for their country, but not old enough to defend themselves responsibly? I don't think so.

There ya go!

Well said Sir.

TheRising · Post by **TheRising** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:15 am

I'm not too sure why you guys are being so hard-headed about this. I am no less a supporter of CHLs being allowed to carry where they want, but you must not understand the people you are dealing with. I JUST graduated from College, Penn State to be exact. I am STILL in that 18-24 age group, 23 to be exact. Why is it that I can see a need to "deal" with the liberal ideaology of college campuses to get what we want and none of you "wiser" older guys can? If you want to stand there with your arms folded across your chest, yelling on the playground, and not give up any ground that you're already NOT standing on, fine by me, but that is not the direction I plan on going. You will get no where. This is a political beast. If you want to live in la-la land and think that we will be granted everything the Framers "gave" to us, go ahead, but I will guarantee that you will get nowhere.

SRVA · Post by **SRVA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:30 am

I am deeply saddened by the events at VTech and my prayers go out to all those impacted by this horrible event. I also appreciate the passion the members of this forum have shown for making sure that the true facts of this event are discussed.

The topic of this thread is how to take positive action to ensure people are informed of our view. Please stay on topic.

Steve