CA:Rick Warren says son killed self with "unregistered gun"

[seamusTX]

The Reverend Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Church in Orange County, California, says that his son committed suicide with an "unregistered gun" that the young man bought "over the internet" and had the serial number scratched off.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-575 ... n-suicide/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prayers for the comfort of the Warren family are in order.

I'm not from Missouri, but I was born in a contiguous state (Illinois). You are going to hear this repeated to "crack down" on internet sales.

Obviously selling a firearm with a defaced serial number is a serious federal offense. No one in their right mind would do that. It's more of a cheap movie plot than real life.

- Jim

[K.Mooneyham]

Something is indeed rotten in Denmark, or in this case, California. I purchased a firearm from an online dealer, and it still had to be shipped to an FFL, where I had to fill out the 4473 and have the NICS run on me (prior to having CHL). This stuff just gets more disgusting by the day.

[seamusTX]

I have bought more than a couple of firearms "over the internet." All of them were shipped to a local FFL, and I did the usual fandango. The buyer always has to fill out a 4473. Having a CHL dispenses with the FBI background check in Texas.

Sadly, all these weapons were washed out in Hurricane Ike.

I don't know about California. They are much more restrictive, which is why they have no crime at all.

- Jim

[filmtex]

The OP posted a link to a CBS story. Sorry, but I find ANYTHING that CBS reports "hard to believe." I think I'll wait a bit until other sources come forward to put the whole story together for myself. Of course, we're all saddened by his loss. As a native Californian and Permanent Texas resident (got here as fast as I could), I'm not inclined to believe anything I hear from the news organizations in California. Just my 2 cents.

[mojo84]

He did tweet that comment. I received it myself and will not fault him nor critique his comment because I can't imagine the grief and pain he is feeling.

Here's the tweet.

Rick Warren (@RickWarren) tweeted at 2:44 PM on Thu, Apr 11, 2013:
Someone on the internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun.I pray he seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15
(https://twitter.com/RickWarren/status/3 ... 2828917760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

[A-R]

We need to make clear to as many people as will listen that this "unregistered" gun with defaced serial number is NOT the same as the private transfers that Congress is trying to now make illegal. This was a criminal, black-market gun sale by very nature of the defaced serial number making that gun illegal in the first place. This "unregistered" transfer would STILL take place even if "universal" background checks becomes law because anyone willing to deface a serial number will have no problem ALSO continuing to sell such illegal guns outside the FFL/NICS system.

The private sales/transfers/trades we all enjoy are legal, above-board transfers of legal guns between two law-abiding citizens.

[anygunanywhere]

He did tweet that comment. I received it myself and will not fault him nor critique his comment because I can't imagine the grief and pain he is feeling.

Here's the tweet.

Rick Warren (@RickWarren) tweeted at 2:44 PM on Thu, Apr 11, 2013:
Someone on the internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun.I pray he seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15
(https://twitter.com/RickWarren/status/3 ... 2828917760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Lest we forget, all we know is what this individual has told us. We know not anything factual about the firearm or the purchase.

All of my firearms are unregistered.

I bought them all legally.

Even if fact surface that question the legality of the transaction, we also cannot forget that it is not beyond the antis to fabricate evidence to support their agenda.

Anygunanywhere

[A-R]

Also to add:

even with true 100% full UNIVERSAL background checks, what would have stopped this young man from purchasing a gun legally?

I know nothing about this story beyond what I've read this morning, was this young man already a prohibited gun owner for some other reason (drugs, mental issues, felonies)?

And even if he was denied a gun, what's to stop him from any of the 1,000 other ways to commit suicide?

[texanjoker]

Wow I didn't know the crooks had online gun sites to sell defaced guns.

[anygunanywhere]

Wow I didn't know the crooks had online gun sites to sell defaced guns.

They give discounts to other criminals. Show them your prison tatts and you get 10% off.

Anygunanywhere

[mojo84]

Where did it say it was advertised as having the serial number removed? I doubt it was advertised as such.

A friend of mine found a gun listed on a gun listing site, inquired about and made arrangements to purchase it last week. The seller lives in out if town but was planning on being in SA. They met at a convenience store and traded cash for the gun. No id, no bill of sale. Nothing.

I'm not making any comment about whether this is right or wrong. However, I have no reason to doubt what Rick Warren said because many would consider what my friend did an "internet sale/puchase" and either party could have been a criminal. This may be how Rick's son acquired his gun.

Since he is not a gun guy, I'm not going to bust him on the "unregistered" comment as there are non-gun folks that don't know guns aren't registered.

In addition, I don't think he was making a political statement based on his tweet.

[seamusTX]

What Rick Warren says is the truth for him, and for something like 20,000 of his parishioners or other followers (I'm not one of them).

I kinda think this might have been something like a Craigslist sale. Maybe someone who knows California law can say how these exchanges are supposed to be done legally. What I garnered is that California does not have anything that they would admit is "registration," but all exchanges of firearms must go through the California Department of Justice (which of course does not keep record of such ).

As said above, the unfortunate young man who killed himself would not have been legally barred from purchasing a firearm. In California he would have had to complete a safety course before purchasing a handgun.

There was no legal remedy for his suicide.

- Jim

[jimlongley]

So he's telling us that his son committed one or more felonies?

[JALLEN]

In California, ALL firearms sales must go through an FFL, LGS, gun show, FTF, whatever. The FFL fills out all the paperwork, obtains two sources proving you are a resident and where, puts the whole thing into the DOJ computer and waits ten days, to the minute. After that ten days has run, the buyer can pick up the weapon, provided the DOJ hasn't stopped it. If the weapon is a handgun, the buyer must have a Handgun Safety Certificate dated within the last five years. A certificate is issued after a 25 question test, for a fee. The FFL collects sales tax, state fees, its fee, etc.

I don't know about interstate sales. AFAIK, I can't buy a handgun in another state, unless it runs through California DOJ. Only handguns on the DOJ approved list can be bought, with some exceptions, like LEO who can buy an unapproved gun, then transfer it legally to anyone, through FFLs, of course.

DOJ has a database of every such transaction of course. I doubt they have the record of when I bought a 10-22 35 years ago, etc, but certainly all transactions since 2000 or so are in the computer somewhere.

Julio and his pal who had my 226 under the seat of their car loaded in a HS parking lot at 3 in the morning didn't use an FFL, didn't pay sales tax, fill out any papers or nothing. They bought it from "some dude!" Julio doesn't give a flip what the Legislature thinks or does.