UNCLEAR: Public school parking lot

[ATDM]

I have tried to find a clear answer as new CHL holder, but to no avail. I keep reading contradicting statements and opinions; and the law itself is not fully clear to me. I would really appreciate your help in this SPECIFIC SCENARIO:

I go about my business during the day with my concealed weapon, and then I go pick up my oldest son from the public school:

Am I permitted to disarm discretely in my car and lock the gun in it (in the SCHOOL'S PARKING LOT)? Or, do I need to go home first to drop it off?

Thank you in advance...

[alvins]

Im pretty sure long as the entrances arent posted 30.06 signs you can have your gun in the car. Also from what I have read and seen you can carry your gun unless you plan on going inside the school building.

[TheCytochromeC]

This has come up in these forums many many times. I'll give you the short answer, no. Keep it concealed and safely locked in your car.

IBTL

[ATDM]

Im pretty sure long as the entrances arent posted 30.06 signs you can have your gun in the car. Also from what I have read and seen you can carry your gun unless you plan on going inside the school building.

Thank you. That was my common sense understanding of this issue. As to the 30.06 sign at the entrance, my understanding was that a Public School does not need signs, because it is covered by Texas Law, and it specifically includes only the building and the grounds, where classes and recess are conducted (stadiums, playgrounds, etc.)

Even if there is a sign, ARE WE NOT COVERED by the law allowing firearms concealed in the vehicles EVEN WITHOUT the CHL?

Thank you...

[ATDM]

This has come up in these forums many many times. I'll give you the short answer, no. Keep it concealed and safely locked in your car.

IBTL

Thank you. This was my general understanding, but when this topic is discussed in a forum — it gets so BOGGED DOWN by the minutia and nuances, that I cannot see a clear answer. If it was a gray area, I would understand; but I think that this situation is too common for it to be a gray area.

Thank you for your pithy answer...

[RoyGBiv]

Am I permitted to disarm discretely in my car and lock the gun in it (in the SCHOOL'S PARKING LOT)?

YES... If we're talking about a PUBLIC School.
For a Private school, parking lots (and sidewalks) are OK as long as they are not posted with 30.06.
I carried to pick up my kids every day when they were in grade school. Walked right up to the front door, but didn't ever carry inside.

Check CHL-16, PC 46.035 for the definition of "Premises" (page 39.. Their numbers, not PDF page number)
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(3)“Premises”means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area

Also..... For a PUBLIC school... if the parking lot is posted 30.06, I ignore it. Posting 30.06 on publicly-owned things is not allowed, unless carry is prohibited by statute. For example, posting 30.06 signs on a school building is redundant, but allowed, since CHL in schools is prohibited by law (stupid idea, but there it is). There is a thread here somewhere asking people to post photos and locations of 30.06 signs in places where they are not allowed by statute. The legislature tried to pass a law creating a penalty for anyone posting 30.06 signs in places where the sign is not allowed... Didn't get out of committee, IIRC.

I am not a lawyer. This is my opinion. Not legal advice.

[ATDM]

Also..... For a PUBLIC school... if the parking lot is posted 30.06, I ignore it. Posting 30.06 on publicly-owned things is not allowed, unless carry is prohibited by statute. For example, posting 30.06 signs on a school building is redundant, but allowed, since CHL in schools is prohibited by law (stupid idea, but there it is). There is a thread here somewhere asking people to post photos and locations of 30.06 signs in places where they are not allowed by statute. The legislature tried to pass a law creating a penalty for anyone posting 30.06 signs in places where the sign is not allowed... Didn't get out of committee, IIRC.

I am not a lawyer. This is my opinion. Not legal advice.

[/quote]

Thank you for the answer, especially the part I quoted above. This was exactly my understanding about the 30.06 at the entrance of a Public School parking lot (in fact, I stated that in one of my replies). Some overzealous school officials don't bother to check the law and post unnecessary and illegal signs. The are just hoping for a scarecrow effect, because I do not believe anyone will be prosecuted for having a firearm in the car in a Public school's parking lot.

Thanks.

[3dfxMM]

Am I permitted to disarm discretely in my car and lock the gun in it (in the SCHOOL'S PARKING LOT)?

YES... If we're talking about a PUBLIC School.
For a Private school, parking lots (and sidewalks) are OK as long as they are not posted with 30.06.
I carried to pick up my kids every day when they were in grade school. Walked right up to the front door, but didn't ever carry inside.

Check CHL-16, PC 46.035 for the definition of "Premises" (page 39.. Their numbers, not PDF page number)
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(3)“Premises”means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area

Also..... For a PUBLIC school... if the parking lot is posted 30.06, I ignore it. Posting 30.06 on publicly-owned things is not allowed, unless carry is prohibited by statute. For example, posting 30.06 signs on a school building is redundant, but allowed, since CHL in schools is prohibited by law (stupid idea, but there it is). There is a thread here somewhere asking people to post photos and locations of 30.06 signs in places where they are not allowed by statute. The legislature tried to pass a law creating a penalty for anyone posting 30.06 signs in places where the sign is not allowed... Didn't get out of committee, IIRC.

I am not a lawyer. This is my opinion. Not legal advice.

There are no places where a 30.06 is not allowed by statute. Posting them on school buildings is no more illegal, nor more valid, than posting them on the public library.

[jmra]

Even if there is a sign, ARE WE NOT COVERED by the law allowing firearms concealed in the vehicles EVEN WITHOUT the CHL?

No. Without a CHL you would be violating GFSZA.

[ATDM]

Even if there is a sign, ARE WE NOT COVERED by the law allowing firearms concealed in the vehicles EVEN WITHOUT the CHL?

No. Without a CHL you would be violating GFSZA.

I truly wish they would adjust their legalese in the law and write it in English. I have spend two decades in schools (I am a physician), and I can't make heads or tails of some of that stuff in the law.

Thank you for clarifying some of these things. There was another statement in the law mentioning being within 300 feet of the school with a firearm. Do you know what that's about?

Thanks for the help...

[baldeagle]

Whenever you want to know what the law says, you should consult the law, not other people. The law regarding parking lots and concealed weapons is in the Texas Labor Code Chapter 52 Subchapter G Section 52.061 which was added by amending Chapter 52 in the 82nd Legislature in Senate Bill 321. Basically that bill made it legal for an employee to have a weapon in a locked compartment in their car in the employer's parking lot regardless of employer policy regarding firearms on their property.

There are, however, exceptions to the exemption.

Sec. 52.062.
EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:
(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or
(2) apply to:
(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee’s employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the employee’s duties;
(B) a school district;
(C) an open-enrollment charter school, as defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;
(D) a private school, as defined by Section 22.081, Education Code;

I can't find anything in the Texas Education Code that defines what a school district is, so I think it would take an opinion from the Attorney General Abbott's office to know for sure, but it appears to me, given that the law specifically exempts open-enrollment charter schools as well as private schools from the protection of 52.061, that you cannot have a weapon in your car in the parking lot of a public school either.

IANAL. Perhaps a lawyer could express an opinion regarding this issue.

The Attorney General's office did express an opinion about this law but did not specifically address the issue of school districts.

[ATDM]

I can't find anything in the Texas Education Code that defines what a school district is, so I think it would take an opinion from the Attorney General Abbott's office to know for sure, but it appears to me, given that the law specifically exempts open-enrollment charter schools as well as private schools from the protection of 52.061, that you cannot have a weapon in your car in the parking lot of a public school either.

IANAL. Perhaps a lawyer could express an opinion regarding this issue.

The Attorney General's office did express an opinion about this law but did not specifically address the issue of school districts.

This is exactly what I meant — there is no clarity in the law about this specific (and common) issue. Only implications. The lawyers in the government formulate the laws in such a way that we have to hire other lawyers to interpret it for us. And after all this, we still ONLY GET SOMEONE'S opinion. I am sure that they can make it clear because the 51% rule is clear, the 30.06 sign is clear, the airport rule is clear. I don't go to 51% places very often, I only fly once a year; but the public school visits for a father are routine, and yet, the law is not providing a clear rule.

[baldeagle]

Perhaps we should write the Attorney General and ask for a written opinion.

[Oldgringo]

Don't ask, don't tell.

[Keith B]

A CHL holder may keep a concealed handgun on their body anywhere on public school property as long as it is not in the premises. Premises is specifically spelled out as a building or portion of a building. The only time you cannot have one on you on school grounds is if there is a school sponsored activity going on such as band or athletic practice or attending a sporting event on the schools property. You may also disarm and leave your gun in your vehicle if you are going to go into the building. However, as always, you must keep hour handgun concealed at all times.