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I rather like the idea of pushing for open carry with the full intention of dropping it for less restrictions on the CHL.

this would really give us a double win.

The anti's think they have beaten us out of something "dangerous."

and we get to feel out the reaction of the general public to open carry. not to mention the added value of the CHL.

if this campaign was backed by well thought out, level headed, common sense ads and people talking about it, the reaction might be less of a "the world is going to end" then it probably will be the first time around. so the next time we bring it up, they will have already heard about it. it won't be such a new and scary thing.

on the issue of the public reaction, I was in Cleburne wal-mart the week before last and noticed a gentleman carrying a full frame pistol on his right hip (sorry, wasn't able to discern the make and model) he was wearing jeans and a button down short sleeve shirt. I had to LOOK to find his badge. i've no clue what agency he was with, but the badge was very small.
NO ONE reacted to his carrying a gun. I realize this is Cleburne and not Houston or Dallas, but I've run into some pretty rabid antis in Cleburne.
this gentleman looked no different then 90% of the people I see at the range. the only difference was he had a (tiny) badge. I doubt most people would have been able to see that badge w/o knowing to look for it.
I would be willing to guess that most people would just assume that if they see your gun, you are LEO and not ask questions.

I agree with many of the arguments against open carry as they make a lot of sense. Thank you for making them. IMO its always best to look at every side of an issue before making a decision.

good discussion and posts from both sides!

1TallTXn wrote:I rather like the idea of pushing for open carry with the full intention of dropping it for less restrictions on the CHL.

this would really give us a double win.

The anti's think they have beaten us out of something "dangerous."

and we get to feel out the reaction of the general public to open carry. not to mention the added value of the CHL.

I don't favor this tactic. my reasoning is quite plain, I don't want the general public to get the idea that defeating gun issues is:

a. popular with the majority public.
b: a positive safety issue.
c. defeating gun issues is done on a regular basis.

That's how the MSM will report it.
Remember, primarily,it's the media that is anti-gun.
Also, Keeping them off their high horse on gun-contol is a good idea.

I whole heartedly support the tact of making additional gains we can make with our current concealed laws first. Then open carry might seem to be no more than a simple and natural after thought.

I am usually not one to shy from a fight, or to keep my voice down - you can ask anyone that knows me and they will typically concur. But with the power the media has in the form of their widely distributed soapbox, and their feeling that they have the duty to spew forth absolute garbage, often completely unsubstantiated and wholehearted biased - I would rather not poke that hornets nest.

Do I feel slighted that I have to re-justify my Constitutionally granted right to carry? Dang right, especially after serving in the Army in a combat arms MOS. But that doesn't mean we have to take the hard road to get things right in the world.

I think we could really push the CHL issue with the Gov race candidates, especially under the guise of Homeland Security concerns, increased illegal immigration, rising crime rates, etc. There are many reasons to relax concealed carry as there is no immediate overwhelming problems to deal with, like dealing with public reaction. I think it will be easier for the politicians to agree on that without having to bit and piece the legislation together. I'd rather have the perfect CHL laws than have hacked up open carry laws that open up even more restrictions against concealed carry. Sometimes it is best the leave the sheeple in ignorance.


I am not worried about having open carry to give off an image of a difficult target - I already do. I'm not a small guy, almost 6 feet, broad shoulders, got some meat on me. I keep a very watchful eye and a no-nonsence attitude about me. People notice, and they don't do things they might have otherwise. This includes cutting me off in grocery stores, mouthing off to start issues, trying to "pull one" on me, et cetera. I know for a fact this approach has kept me out of bad situations before, as the BGs walking up on me in a parking lot saw it would be no walk in the park. However, never once did I need a firearm even on me, let alone in plain view, to achieve this. I know I am not superman, and that if it were my time, it'd be my time, but I do believe that a pro-active attitude and habits can work wonders.

Criminals are like water, they follow the path of least resistance.

Well said Cyphur!!! Thanks for a great post!!
ReySC

cyphur wrote:... I do believe that a pro-active attitude and habits can work wonders.

Criminals are like water, they follow the path of least resistance.

I agree, for the typical street thug.

Lunatics and desperate criminals are another story. Look at that moron who ran into the U.S. Capitol yesterday. (Talk about homeland security.)

Fortunately, such incidents are rare.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

cyphur wrote:... I do believe that a pro-active attitude and habits can work wonders.

Criminals are like water, they follow the path of least resistance.

I agree, for the typical street thug.

Lunatics and desperate criminals are another story. Look at that moron who ran into the U.S. Capitol yesterday. (Talk about homeland security.)

Fortunately, such incidents are rare.

- Jim

Very true, my comments were directed more to the day to day stuff. In any event, situational awareness is key, and in the worst case, thats why we carry.

cyphur wrote:Do I feel slighted that I have to re-justify my Constitutionally granted right to carry? Dang right, especially after serving in the Army in a combat arms MOS. But that doesn't mean we have to take the hard road to get things right in the world.

Bingo!

I oppose open carry for several reasons. I think the most germane point is that many Texans, and citizens of other states with concealed carry, don't even know that they have a right to concealed carry, and open carry might well result in many places banning both open and concealed carry.

I also don't want other people to know I'm carrying. And I would want a holster with a higher level of retention feature than I want to use.

I have spent 5 months of the last year in states which allow open carry. All honor my Texas CHL. I have never carried openly, and don't intend to.

My sentiments exactly.

kw5kw wrote:How about:

Stopping at a gas station after dark, you get out of your car to fill the tank at a self-serve pump. You have your wallet out, and the Bad Guy(s) come up on you, one on each side--you're weapon is concealed, as required by law, and you DO NOT have time to draw because they came up so quickly. I'm not talking about being in condition WHITE here, I'm just talking they appeared out of the dark shadows from around the "Stop-N-Rob" so fast you did not have time to respond.

Of course because you're weapon is concealed they don't know that you're carrying. They have the drop on you... you have no other option but to give them your wallet and hope for the best.

Scenario number two: Stopping at a gas station after dark, you get out of your car to fill the tank at a self-serve pump. You have your wallet out, and because we now have open carry—you’re gun is at 3 o’clock—clearly visible. Bad guys come out of the dark from around the corner of the “Stop-N-Rob�; see your gun, and decide that they’ll go where the pickin’s will be easier. You escape without even knowing it only because they (the bad guy’s) saw your weapon and changed their mind.

I like # 2 the best.

Russ

Orrrr :)

They come up on you like you say and you dont realize it. They see your weapon just as they come up behind you and realize they gotta get it off of you or they will die, so they grab it quickly out of your holster and now your without a gun :)

orrrr:

Those that don't feel comfortable openly carrying...... DON"T.

Those that feel comfortable......DO.

Aint nobody going to force you to wear open.

Obviously there is a time for open and concealed.

Dan

Open carry was something I just loved about Arizona. You can just get out of the truck with a 1911 on your hip and a couple magazines on the other hip, and go about your business while getting some real doubletakes from people around you, but no one is going to *say* anything about it. Nor is anyone going to give you a hard time.

Ah! What a feeling :D

I'd sure vote for it, and also because here in Texas it's often too hot to be dressing around a gun.