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talltex wrote:

drjoker wrote:The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave."

Not JUST mistaken identity...gross negligence also...they were at the wrong address. They responded to an alarm across the street...they approached on foot and walked up the driveway, which has the street address number clearly painted on the curb right at the driveway entrance, and shot Mr. Waller in his own garage when he raised the door.

Yep because bad guys always stay at the reported address and never hid nearby in things like sheds and, oh my, garages.

EEllis wrote:

talltex wrote:

drjoker wrote:The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave."

Not JUST mistaken identity...gross negligence also...they were at the wrong address. They responded to an alarm across the street...they approached on foot and walked up the driveway, which has the street address number clearly painted on the curb right at the driveway entrance, and shot Mr. Waller in his own garage when he raised the door.

Yep because bad guys always stay at the reported address and never hid nearby in things like sheds and, oh my, garages.

In fairness, good police procedure for an unconfirmed burglar alarm call, which is false 99.999% of the time, starts with a search of the right address to find out if a crime has occurred and to determine if the suspect is still there or not before moving to other areas.

Starting out at the wrong address and shooting folks that live there without even checking the dispatched location is pretty hard for me to swallow as good or even excusably bad police work.

The results speak for themselves.

EEllis wrote:

talltex wrote:

drjoker wrote:The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave."

Not JUST mistaken identity...gross negligence also...they were at the wrong address. They responded to an alarm across the street...they approached on foot and walked up the driveway, which has the street address number clearly painted on the curb right at the driveway entrance, and shot Mr. Waller in his own garage when he raised the door.

Yep because bad guys always stay at the reported address and never hid nearby in things like sheds and, oh my, garages.

REALLY EEllis ? Call me silly, but it sure seems like "the reported address" might just be a good place to start before wandering off elsewhere and shooting an innocent homeowner in his own garage... ya' think???

talltex wrote:

EEllis wrote:

talltex wrote:

drjoker wrote:The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave."

Not JUST mistaken identity...gross negligence also...they were at the wrong address. They responded to an alarm across the street...they approached on foot and walked up the driveway, which has the street address number clearly painted on the curb right at the driveway entrance, and shot Mr. Waller in his own garage when he raised the door.

Yep because bad guys always stay at the reported address and never hid nearby in things like sheds and, oh my, garages.

REALLY EEllis ? Call me silly, but it sure seems like "the reported address" might just be a good place to start before wandering off elsewhere and shooting an innocent homeowner in his own garage... ya' think???

There are a lot of departments that do not respond to residential alarms anymore because the majority of them are false alarms.

A reasonable person would at least go the correct resident before searching garages, sheds, carports, etc. . . to make sure there was a crime committed.

A reasonable and prudent person DOES NOT GO LOOKING FOR A SUSPECT unless he knows there has been a crime committed.

talltex wrote:

EEllis wrote:

talltex wrote:

drjoker wrote:The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave."

Not JUST mistaken identity...gross negligence also...they were at the wrong address. They responded to an alarm across the street...they approached on foot and walked up the driveway, which has the street address number clearly painted on the curb right at the driveway entrance, and shot Mr. Waller in his own garage when he raised the door.

Yep because bad guys always stay at the reported address and never hid nearby in things like sheds and, oh my, garages.

REALLY EEllis ? Call me silly, but it sure seems like "the reported address" might just be a good place to start before wandering off elsewhere and shooting an innocent homeowner in his own garage... ya' think???

and You know they never checked how? That they couldn't of been approaching on foot instead of pulling up with lights flashing? Because you know everything you must have been there right?

OK people, keep this dicussion civil or the topic will be locked.

Excaliber wrote:

EEllis wrote:

talltex wrote:

drjoker wrote:The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave."

Not JUST mistaken identity...gross negligence also...they were at the wrong address. They responded to an alarm across the street...they approached on foot and walked up the driveway, which has the street address number clearly painted on the curb right at the driveway entrance, and shot Mr. Waller in his own garage when he raised the door.

Yep because bad guys always stay at the reported address and never hid nearby in things like sheds and, oh my, garages.

In fairness, good police procedure for an unconfirmed burglar alarm call, which is false 99.999% of the time, starts with a search of the right address to find out if a crime has occurred and to determine if the suspect is still there or not before moving to other areas.

Starting out at the wrong address and shooting folks that live there without even checking the dispatched location is pretty hard for me to swallow as good or even excusably bad police work.

The results speak for themselves.

Chas.

Officer No-Billedhttp://www.star-telegram.com/2014/01/29 ... ndict.html

This is a tragic event for all involved, but apparently the Grand Jury felt there was not enough evidence to criminally indict the officer. This doesn't eliminate the civil lawsuit that can be filed by the family. I expect that will be forthcoming very quickly.

The Grand Jury reviewed evidence we will never see. All we know is what the media decides we should know.

jbarn wrote:The Grand Jury reviewed evidence we will never see. All we know is what the media decides we should know.

Let's correct that a little bit, if you don't mind...

The Grand Jury reviewed evidence we will never see. All we know is what the media decides we should know from what the police administration gave them officially, and police officers gave them unofficially.

n5wd wrote:

jbarn wrote:The Grand Jury reviewed evidence we will never see. All we know is what the media decides we should know.

Let's correct that a little bit, if you don't mind...

The Grand Jury reviewed evidence we will never see. All we know is what the media decides we should know from what the police administration gave them officially, and police officers gave them unofficially.

And others that may have spoken to. In reality, all you know is that which the media decided to tell you. They could, and likely do, have facts they failed to report that would change your mind regarding this case, regardless of what side you are on.

I was a cop, the though of taking the life of an innocent person horrifies me. And I have to admit, when I first heard this story from the media I thought the LEO really messed up. However, the Grand Jury has ruled, and I have faith in that system.

It is still tragic, and the LEO will never be the same.

jbarn wrote: And others that may have spoken to. In reality, all you know is that which the media decided to tell you. They could, and likely do, have facts they failed to report that would change your mind regarding this case, regardless of what side you are on.

I was a cop, the though of taking the life of an innocent person horrifies me. And I have to admit, when I first heard this story from the media I thought the LEO really messed up. However, the Grand Jury has ruled, and I have faith in that system.

It is still tragic, and the LEO will never be the same.

I'm very sorry for the officers involved. I'm also very sorry for the man's family. It was indeed tragic.

But I think that this situation and many of the other "failure to comply" tragedies affect many more people and for a long time.

I totally understand a "failure to comply" with a bad outcome where the person involved was the subject of the original police activity. Even some of those, like the Costco shooting a few years ago, are highly questionable. It is in the best of interests of LE in general to carefully assess every one of them to determine if things could be done differently to avert similar tragedies in the future. I have no knowledge of whether such an analysis was done in the Ft. Worth matter and fully understand that because of a possible pending civil action, the fact that such an analysis was performed will likely not be made public.

In all cases with a "failure to comply" where the person or persons who are involved were NOT the original police subject and were not even suspected of any other crimes, the situation deserves even further scrutiny. In a separate thread, I mentioned the search for the Boston
bombing subjects and that is easily a similar set of circumstances - where people who were only near where police activity was occurring could end up with a bad result if it is felt that they failed to comply as fully or in the manner required.

Personally, I'm going to be more hesitant to call LE to my home as a result of this case. The risks of dealing with a BG are less of a problem than my possibly being in a "failure to comply" situation.

jbarn wrote:
Personally, I'm going to be more hesitant to call LE to my home as a result of this case. The risks of dealing a BG are less of a problem than my possibly being in a "failure to comply" situation.

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