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Ruark wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 5:05 pm Interesting how so many people on this forum lambast the media's distortion and lying on issues like gun control, the democrats, BLM, etc., then suddenly turn and swallow every drop of Koolaid that squirts out of the TV.

The first casualty of war is truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfArW6zppYw&t=55s

Falsehood In War Time (1928) sums up the same lies, now at a different time:

1. We do not want war.
2. The opposite party alone is guilty of war.
3. The enemy is inherently evil and resembles the devil.
4. We defend a noble cause, not our own interests.
5. The enemy commits atrocities on purpose; our mishaps are involuntary.
6. The enemy uses forbidden weapons.
7. We suffer small losses, those of the enemy are enormous.
8. Recognized artists and intellectuals back our cause.
9. Our cause is sacred.
10. All who doubt our propaganda are traitors.

Well said, Paladin. And "truth" is definitely the first casualty.

Ruark wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 5:05 pm Interesting how so many people on this forum lambast the media's distortion and lying on issues like gun control, the democrats, BLM, etc., then suddenly turn and swallow every drop of Koolaid that squirts out of the TV.

Members aren't buying your Putin spin on the facts, so you no attack them personally. Stop now!

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:58 am

Ruark wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 5:05 pm Interesting how so many people on this forum lambast the media's distortion and lying on issues like gun control, the democrats, BLM, etc., then suddenly turn and swallow every drop of Koolaid that squirts out of the TV.

Members aren't buying your Putin spin on the facts, so you no attack them personally. Stop now!

Chas.

Sorry, sir, I had no intention of offending anyone here, and certainly not "attacking" anybody. It's just striking how so many of us (on the forum and elsewhere) see the MSM as not to be trusted under any circumstances, and now, suddenly, every word that's printed is treated like some holy gospel. I, for one, have maintained my skepticism. And keep in mind that many of my conclusions are based on information from FAMILY MEMBERS WHO LIVE IN UKRAINE. The last time we Skyped with my wife's cousin in Kharkiv, she was trembling with fear of the Ukrainian nationalists who were shelling people (knowing it would be blamed on the Russians) and blocking streets to prevent people from leaving. She was praying for the Russians to arrive and kill them all. OK, well, yeah, guess she could just be making it all up.... nobody cares.

I admit, this whole thing is ugly, and I'm not inclined to get into a 50 page "analysis and discussion." The best thing to do now is just wait and see how this all pans out, as it will very soon.

By the way... here are some more "facts" that might be helpful. And these are just a drop in the bucket:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 952717001/

A little satire here for everyone regarding the events unfolding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1W5o3Xz5OI

Flightmare wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:30 pm A little satire here for everyone regarding the events unfolding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1W5o3Xz5OI

Classic!!

Paladin wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:48 pm

Flightmare wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:30 pm A little satire here for everyone regarding the events unfolding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1W5o3Xz5OI

Classic!!

Yep. Pretty much spot on!

03Lightningrocks wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 5:37 pm

Paladin wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:48 pm

Flightmare wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 12:30 pm A little satire here for everyone regarding the events unfolding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1W5o3Xz5OI

Classic!!

Yep. Pretty much spot on!

I would agree. Except at the end of maybe next week. Russia will have with deadly force taken, stolen and conquered a real sovereign country on its border at the cost of thousands of lives, many non combatant, and destroyed most of the country. (will we get to pay to rebuild Ukraine?)

I think we can agree that is what is happening. We can argue about whether the President is a nice guy or whether it is a dictatorship or a democracy or whether Putin gets to keep his black belt or whether the Ukraine is racist or Transphobic. But Russia is stealing a country by force.

The question will remain will they take Moldova next, Romania after that?

I feel almost everything ends up being about land in the end.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... OGGIO.html

A more somber assessment of the current situation in Ukraine. The Russians are winning.

Just had another Skype session with my wife's cousin in Kharkov. She lives in the east central part of town. She said everything's quiet around her apartments, they just walked down to the store and got some stuff. Utilities are all working fine. They hear occasional shots off in the distance, but haven't seen anything. They (she, her neighbors and friends, etc.) are anxious for the Russians to clean out the Ukrainian nationalists that have terrorized everybody for 8 years so life can get back to normal. Just passing it on.

Incidentally that photograph of Zelenski in camo was taken last year, while he was visiting Ukrainian troops that were attacking Donetsk.

Ruark wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:11 pm Just had another Skype session with my wife's cousin in Kharkov. She lives in the east central part of town. She said everything's quiet around her apartments, they just walked down to the store and got some stuff. Utilities are all working fine. They hear occasional shots off in the distance, but haven't seen anything. They (she, her neighbors and friends, etc.) are anxious for the Russians to clean out the Ukrainian nationalists that have terrorized everybody for 8 years so life can get back to normal. Just passing it on.

Incidentally that photograph of Zelenski in camo was taken last year, while he was visiting Ukrainian troops that were attacking Donetsk.

It is interesting to read a perspective not pumped out by our corrupt propaganda machine here in America. To every story there is an apposing story. Why anyone would believe any propaganda pumped out by our politicians and media sight unseen at this point is beyond me.

I do not trust our mainstream media and government. I trust the Russian media and government even less. Those who are buying into the Putin and Russia media spin should be as skeptical about what they hear and believe as they expect others to be about what is heared from our government and media.

I am not convinced an invasion by Russia is justified. I understand many politicians in Ukraine may be corrupt. Is politician corruption the standard to justify an invasion? I hope that is not a suitable justification as I would hate for someone to apply that standard to the USA. Every country has to deal with corruption.

mojo84 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:48 am I do not trust our mainstream media and government. I trust the Russian media and government even less. Those who are buying into the Putin and Russia media spin should be as skeptical about what they hear and believe as they expect others to be about what is heared from our government and media.

I am not convinced an invasion by Russia is justified. I understand many politicians in Ukraine may be corrupt. Is politician corruption the standard to justify an invasion? I hope that is not a suitable justification as I would hate for someone to apply that standard to the USA. Every country has to deal with corruption.

I do agree that no matter the level of corruption, Putin has no right to invade them. Our government ain't much better than Ukraines. I sure would hate to see China invade us because our politicians are all a bunch of lying crooks.

I'm wondering how those missiles, shells and bombs are only taking out the bad Russian hating Ukrainians?????

puma guy wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:30 am I'm wondering how those missiles, shells and bombs are only taking out the bad Russian hating Ukrainians?????

You're thinking too hard. C'mon max!

"We're only cluster bombing the neo-Nazis, Comrade."

Current popular joke in Russia:

Three fans of extreme sports are at a bar, drinking and bragging:
"I scuba-dive -- lots of adrenaline!"
"I base-jump, that's even more dangerous!"
"Pfft to you two - tomorrow, I'm going to a demonstration with a 'No to War!' poster"...