TexasCHLforum.com

ScottDLS wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:47 am

Tex1961 wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:02 pm The state of Texas defines a firearm as any device made or adapted to expel a projectile through the use of a burning or explosive substance. A 30.07 restricts carrying a firearm by a license holder openly. A magazine holder is no a firearm so no, in my opinion carrying a magazine holder past a 30.07 does not violate penal code 30.07.

Technically not a firearm, but a handgun.

Sec. 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
...
(5) "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.

LDB415 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:15 am Look at me. I have a gun. Shoot me first.

That's what open carry says to anyone with ill intent. YMMV

C-dub wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 11:22 pm

ScottDLS wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:47 am

Tex1961 wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:02 pm The state of Texas defines a firearm as any device made or adapted to expel a projectile through the use of a burning or explosive substance. A 30.07 restricts carrying a firearm by a license holder openly. A magazine holder is no a firearm so no, in my opinion carrying a magazine holder past a 30.07 does not violate penal code 30.07.

Technically not a firearm, but a handgun.

Sec. 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
...
(5) "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.

Whoa! Are you saying that says a magazine is a handgun?

ScottDLS wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 12:04 pm

C-dub wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 11:22 pm

ScottDLS wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:47 am

Tex1961 wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:02 pm The state of Texas defines a firearm as any device made or adapted to expel a projectile through the use of a burning or explosive substance. A 30.07 restricts carrying a firearm by a license holder openly. A magazine holder is no a firearm so no, in my opinion carrying a magazine holder past a 30.07 does not violate penal code 30.07.

Technically not a firearm, but a handgun.

Sec. 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
...
(5) "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.

Whoa! Are you saying that says a magazine is a handgun?

No, Tex1961 stated that 30.07 prohibits carrying a firearm openly. It doesn't. I prohibits carrying a handgun openly. Not all firearms are handguns. And no magazines are handguns.

carlson1 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:29 am

LDB415 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:15 am Look at me. I have a gun. Shoot me first.

That's what open carry says to anyone with ill intent. YMMV

That is an opinion. I see statements like this that, but it is just not that plain in every case. There is no data that shows this to be true.

I conceal carry 98.9%. Maybe pumping gas at QT or at my office I open carry just for the comfort of not having to put on my suit
coat.

But to say everyone who open carry’s is a target is no difference than the blood is going to run in the street.

LDB415 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:20 pm

carlson1 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:29 am

LDB415 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:15 am Look at me. I have a gun. Shoot me first.

That's what open carry says to anyone with ill intent. YMMV

That is an opinion. I see statements like this that, but it is just not that plain in every case. There is no data that shows this to be true.

I conceal carry 98.9%. Maybe pumping gas at QT or at my office I open carry just for the comfort of not having to put on my suit
coat.

But to say everyone who open carry’s is a target is no difference than the blood is going to run in the street.

I should have said potentially and have updated it. No, it's not an absolute in every case. But I'm not going to bet my life and risk being one of the cases where it's a truth. And I'm sure there are probably plenty.

Excaliber wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:39 am

LDB415 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:20 pm

carlson1 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:29 am

LDB415 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:15 am Look at me. I have a gun. Shoot me first.

That's what open carry says to anyone with ill intent. YMMV

That is an opinion. I see statements like this that, but it is just not that plain in every case. There is no data that shows this to be true.

I conceal carry 98.9%. Maybe pumping gas at QT or at my office I open carry just for the comfort of not having to put on my suit
coat.

But to say everyone who open carry’s is a target is no difference than the blood is going to run in the street.

I should have said potentially and have updated it. No, it's not an absolute in every case. But I'm not going to bet my life and risk being one of the cases where it's a truth. And I'm sure there are probably plenty.

I think you're overlooking the deterrent effect.

Most criminals are cowards looking for an easy score. Starting out with a murder that could be avoided just by selecting another time or another venue to commit the planned crime doesn't fit well with the way they actually do "business."

Open carry is also a reminder that others are likely carrying concealed as well. Although I carry concealed the vast majority of the time, I don't hesitate to open carry when it suits my convenience or comfort.

Our Way Out West CHL Forum breakfast on the 4th Saturday of every month has a tradition of open carry, and no one has walked into the restaurant and tried to shoot the bunch of us yet.

LDB415 wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:34 pm

Excaliber wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:39 am

LDB415 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:20 pm

carlson1 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:29 am

LDB415 wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:15 am Look at me. I have a gun. Shoot me first.

That's what open carry says to anyone with ill intent. YMMV

That is an opinion. I see statements like this that, but it is just not that plain in every case. There is no data that shows this to be true.

I conceal carry 98.9%. Maybe pumping gas at QT or at my office I open carry just for the comfort of not having to put on my suit
coat.

But to say everyone who open carry’s is a target is no difference than the blood is going to run in the street.

I should have said potentially and have updated it. No, it's not an absolute in every case. But I'm not going to bet my life and risk being one of the cases where it's a truth. And I'm sure there are probably plenty.

I think you're overlooking the deterrent effect.

Most criminals are cowards looking for an easy score. Starting out with a murder that could be avoided just by selecting another time or another venue to commit the planned crime doesn't fit well with the way they actually do "business."

Open carry is also a reminder that others are likely carrying concealed as well. Although I carry concealed the vast majority of the time, I don't hesitate to open carry when it suits my convenience or comfort.

Our Way Out West CHL Forum breakfast on the 4th Saturday of every month has a tradition of open carry, and no one has walked into the restaurant and tried to shoot the bunch of us yet.

Most. Your key word. Yes, in most usual cases that's probably true. But I don't want to be in the unusual case where it isn't. So I'll stick with concealed and have that extra advantage on my side. It may not help but I'm pretty positive it can't hurt.

Excaliber wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:58 am
Well, I'm not quite so sure about that. While concealed carry does maintain tactical surprise, that only comes into play when you find yourself in a confrontation which you may win or lose - and which will be really complicated and expensive either way. A deterrent effect that keeps the valedictorians from picking you is both safer and cheaper - especially since the trend these days is for multiple perps in each incident.

chasfm11 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 10:33 am

Excaliber wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:58 am
Well, I'm not quite so sure about that. While concealed carry does maintain tactical surprise, that only comes into play when you find yourself in a confrontation which you may win or lose - and which will be really complicated and expensive either way. A deterrent effect that keeps the valedictorians from picking you is both safer and cheaper - especially since the trend these days is for multiple perps in each incident.

One might also argue, however, that an equal or greater threat these days might come from political activists rather than criminals. While I personally believe that the vast majority of carried firearms are in the hands of Conservatives, the fear for criminal activity has driven more Liberal thinkers to want to be armed. Based on the statements made by this "come lately" group, many are not self-regulating and have been propagandized to lash out against all things that they perceive to be "MAGA". In a normal street situation, I believe that criminals remain my biggest concern. But I have attended meetings and rallies where I believe that I am a target just by being there and the presence of visible handgun might make me more so. I agree with your comments that criminals are largely cowards looking for a score. The political crazies on the Left appear ready to sacrifice everything, including themselves, for their ideology.

Like others, I CC 90+% of the time. If I am going to OC, it is NOT going to be anywhere when I believe political conflict might occur and that is a surprising number of places now days.

LDB415 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 2:13 pm And continued discussion circles back to mostly and usually. And yes, most criminals are cowards and usually they are looking for the quick and safe for them score. And in those mostly usually cases open carry may be just the thing to cause them to go down the street and ply their trade among a different group of victims. But usually mostly is not absolutely always without doubt or question. And I don't intend to advertise or identify myself so in that unusual and unlikely situation I am shot first.

Excaliber wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:01 am

LDB415 wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2024 2:13 pm And continued discussion circles back to mostly and usually. And yes, most criminals are cowards and usually they are looking for the quick and safe for them score. And in those mostly usually cases open carry may be just the thing to cause them to go down the street and ply their trade among a different group of victims. But usually mostly is not absolutely always without doubt or question. And I don't intend to advertise or identify myself so in that unusual and unlikely situation I am shot first.

Choosing to always CC means the valedictorians are never deterred by the sight of your firearm, and you are thus more likely to be targeted and have to use your tactical surprise which, as I pointed out, will likely be both complicated and expensive even if it is successful.

I'm not faulting your choice, but just recognizing that it has a potential downside as well.

"Mostly and usually" is all we have to work with in life. We all make our choices about how we're going to handle each situation and then live with the consequences, whatever they may be.

LDB415 wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:12 pm And please explain "valedictorians". It apparently means more than I'm aware of.