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I just read some where about the so called "zipper drill" Put the first round in the belt buckle and then three or four quick shots strait up the center of the torso following the natural rise of the point of aim with each round fired

If you're referring to the drill I'm thinking of, its purpose is to begin placing hits on the target as early as possible from the drawstroke as soon as the muzzle is lined up with any part of the torso in a toe to toe situation where you may be facing an assailant who has already drawn or is ahead of you on his draw. It's probably the best technique available if you should find yourself in that very unhappy situation. Except for that circumstance, I think you're better off going for the high center of mass shots first as discussed earlier.

srothstein's recommendation and reasoning on the hip shot (also known as the pelvic shot, since ideally your round will fracture the pelvis and disrupt the structural integrity of the bone structure that's needed to stand, walk, or run) is sound. It's one of the best ways to quickly stop a full running attack like the type you might face with a knife armed assailant. It might even be a preferred first shot under this circumstance because even with 2 rounds in the heart a determined subject can continue to function almost normally for around 15 seconds until oxygenation of the brain drops below the level required to maintain consciousness - plenty long enough to ruin your whole day.

Keep in mind that with the pelvic shot, although the offender may go down, he will not necessarily be out of the fight and could still fire a weapon effectively if he chooses to.

It's a good idea to practice on both secondary target areas (head and pelvis) so you have both of those arrows in your quiver and can decide which best fits a given circumstance you need to resolve.

Excaliber wrote:

I just read some where about the so called "zipper drill" Put the first round in the belt buckle and then three or four quick shots strait up the center of the torso following the natural rise of the point of aim with each round fired

If you're referring to the drill I'm thinking of, its purpose is to begin placing hits on the target as early as possible from the drawstroke as soon as the muzzle is lined up with any part of the torso in a toe to toe situation where you may be facing an assailant who has already drawn or is ahead of you on his draw. It's probably the best technique available if you should find yourself in that very unhappy situation. Except for that circumstance, I think you're better off going for the high center of mass shots first as discussed earlier.

srothstein's recommendation and reasoning on the hip shot (also known as the pelvic shot, since ideally your round will fracture the pelvis and disrupt the structural integrity of the bone structure that's needed to stand, walk, or run) is sound. It's one of the best ways to quickly stop a full running attack like the type you might face with a knife armed assailant. It might even be a preferred first shot under this circumstance because even with 2 rounds in the heart a determined subject can continue to function almost normally for around 15 seconds until oxygenation of the brain drops below the level required to maintain consciousness - plenty long enough to ruin your whole day.

Keep in mind that with the pelvic shot, although the offender may go down, he will not necessarily be out of the fight and could still fire a weapon effectively if he chooses to.

It's a good idea to practice on both secondary target areas (head and pelvis) so you have both of those arrows in your quiver and can decide which best fits a given circumstance you need to resolve.

Very well thought out and interesting post. I think the bottom line here is that there is not just one course of defensive action to cover all a problem arises situations. We should all be familiar and proficient with a virety of defensive tactics. Here we go with that old Forrest Gump thang again, "......ya never know what yer gonna git."

I have enjoyed all the responses in this thread. Some very good ideas and very good points were posted. Thanks!

Are there targets available that have all three (or 4) target areas? I.E. COM, head and pelvis?

Mike from Texas wrote:Are there targets available that have all three (or 4) target areas? I.E. COM, head and pelvis?

Sort of. The closest production target I'm aware of is the B21X and B21XR. It looks like this:



As discussed above, though, current thinking is that the 5X ring on this target should be higher...and as MoJo indicated, might be better drawn as a triangle, not a circle. The B21X still doesn't do a great job of highlighting potentially effective pelvic targets, although it approximates them better than some others.

I'll echo Stephen's and Excaliber's comments about the viability of this target. In fact, in a combat rifle course I attended about 18 months ago taught by an active SpecOps team lead, we were told that--especially for the .223 (not sniping, in moving combat)--this is now considered in-theater as the target you go to immediately after a couple on COM. Too many enemy combatants still highly mobile after hits to the torso.

IMHO, for pistol work, the pelvis can be an important initial target at the touchy-feely distances of extreme close-quarters attacks. I don't mean three yards here, but three feet.

Mike from Texas wrote:Are there targets available that have all three (or 4) target areas? I.E. COM, head and pelvis?

Here's a few I know about.

The PDT target found here:
http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=PDT

Has a good ocular window, realistic sized COM, head, and pelvis. Also has other aiming points in the margins.


Hoffner has a good target:
http://www.hoffners.com/vid.htm

Has a decent eye-nasal opening window (B), realistic sized COM (A), head (B) , and pelvis (C). There are also alternate numbered aiming circles on the sides.

fm2 wrote:

Mike from Texas wrote:Are there targets available that have all three (or 4) target areas? I.E. COM, head and pelvis?

Here's a few I know about.

The PDT target found here:
http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=PDT

Has a good ocular window, realistic sized COM, head, and pelvis. Also has other aiming points in the margins.


Hoffner has a good target:
http://www.hoffners.com/vid.htm

Has a decent eye-nasal opening window (B), realistic sized COM (A), head (B) , and pelvis (C). There are also alternate numbered aiming circles on the sides.

Thanks, I think I'll order some of those.