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Most urban Police Chiefs are politicians first, Law Enforcement second...

No offense intended to the rank and file who actually work for a living...

Keith B wrote: It is actually not part of the Castle Doctrine, but called the Motorist Protection Act. They used to arrest you in Houston under the previous DA, but think that has now changed I believe. However, I have not heard that Ft. Worth was ignoring the fact that it is legal since September 2007 and arresting people for it. I would be interested if he could point us to a specific case?

They did? I can't find much proof of that. I know Rosenthal encouraged folks to arrest people, but we have seen very little evidence that his was actually happening. Perhaps pre-Sept 2005 these things happened before we had the "defense to prosecution" written . It is my understanding the the LEOs in Houston understood the law and they were not going after folks who were legally carrying. The police do not work for the DA.
Most of the police and the other LEOs understood that Rosenthal was walking very thin ice and didn't wish to take the walk with him.
I do remember that the TSRA was looking for a victim in 2007 to testify before the 80th legislature and they did manage to find someone. I do not know anything about the circumstances of this individuals case, but I do remember there were not a lot of people who were victimized and it wasn't real easy to find someone arrested under the old law.

Liberty wrote:

Keith B wrote: It is actually not part of the Castle Doctrine, but called the Motorist Protection Act. They used to arrest you in Houston under the previous DA, but think that has now changed I believe. However, I have not heard that Ft. Worth was ignoring the fact that it is legal since September 2007 and arresting people for it. I would be interested if he could point us to a specific case?

They did? I can't find much proof of that. I know Rosenthal encouraged folks to arrest people, but we have seen very little evidence that his was actually happening. Perhaps pre-Sept 2005 these things happened before we had the "defense to prosecution" written . It is my understanding the the LEOs in Houston understood the law and they were not going after folks who were legally carrying. The police do not work for the DA.
Most of the police and the other LEOs understood that Rosenthal was walking very thin ice and didn't wish to take the walk with him.
I do remember that the TSRA was looking for a victim in 2007 to testify before the 80th legislature and they did manage to find someone. I do not know anything about the circumstances of this individuals case, but I do remember there were not a lot of people who were victimized and it wasn't real easy to find someone arrested under the old law.

Probably a bad choice of words on my part. They used to have the THREAT of arrest if caught, but like you, I am unaware of any actual cases. However, it is like the threat from Ft. Worth that has been espoused but not founded by an actual arrest.

How quickly y'all forget. People were arrested in Harris County, and in some cases they had to go to court to get their weapons returned. The TSRA and Texas ACLU wrote a report on it, which helped contribute to the passage of the MPA in 2007:

http://www.tsra.com/docs/AboveTheLaw.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will take this opportunity to once again mount my soapbox to point out that when the police want to arrest you, they will arrest you regardless of the law; and they will be backed by the full force of the police, city, and county legal systems. You will be up a creek without a paddle.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:How quickly y'all forget. People were arrested in Harris County, and in some cases they had to go to court to get their weapons returned. The TSRA and Texas ACLU wrote a report on it, which helped contribute to the passage of the MPA in 2007:

http://www.tsra.com/docs/AboveTheLaw.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will take this opportunity to once again mount my soapbox to point out that when the police want to arrest you, they will arrest you regardless of the law; and they will be backed by the full force of the police, city, and county legal systems. You will be up a creek without a paddle.

- Jim

Thanks for clearing that up Jim. My some-timers is kicking in and causing periodic loss of memory due to my advanced age of 49. LOL

seamusTX wrote:How quickly y'all forget. People were arrested in Harris County, and in some cases they had to go to court to get their weapons returned. The TSRA and Texas ACLU wrote a report on it, which helped contribute to the passage of the MPA in 2007:

http://www.tsra.com/docs/AboveTheLaw.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will take this opportunity to once again mount my soapbox to point out that when the police want to arrest you, they will arrest you regardless of the law; and they will be backed by the full force of the police, city, and county legal systems. You will be up a creek without a paddle.

- Jim

I remember hearing and reading of very few incidents, and I can't recall a thing about Houston LEOs making arrest. Even the joint NRA/ACLU tract doesn't seem to have any case historys of people getting arrested or charged. My contention is that the LEOs understood the the law and pretty much ignored Rosenthal.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... est#p11341" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UCW is a misdemeanor, and various Harris County LEOs arrest for it three to five thousand times a year. It generally is not reported. We have no idea how many people were persecuted this way.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that of the ten million or so people who are arrested each year in the U.S., everyone, including their defense attorneys, assumes that they are guilty. Nevertheless, from time to time, a situation is discovered like the one in Tulia several years ago, where dozens to hundreds of false arrests are made on the basis of intentionally falsified evidence. Don't even get me started about San Diego and Los Angeles.

- Jim

mymojo wrote:

ninemm wrote:That is what I meant (Motorist Protection Act). Is he saying that Ft. Worth will arrest a CHL for carrying or if you do not have a CHL and a gun is found in your car?

According to my CHL instructor the FT Worth D.A. had instructed the LEOs to arrest for a weapon in the vehicle and no CHL. Next time I'm in the Bullet Trap I'll ask Dave if he can site any cases of it.

That's not true. FWPD is under no instruction to ignore the established laws. Besides, Tim Curry just died a couple of days ago, so there are about to be some changes.

seamusTX wrote:http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... est#p11341

UCW is a misdemeanor, and various Harris County LEOs arrest for it three to five thousand times a year. It generally is not reported. We have no idea how many people were persecuted this way.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that of the ten million or so people who are arrested each year in the U.S., everyone, including their defense attorneys, assumes that they are guilty. Nevertheless, from time to time, a situation is discovered like the one in Tulia several years ago, where dozens to hundreds of false arrests are made on the basis of intentionally falsified evidence. Don't even get me started about San Diego and Los Angeles.

- Jim

What do you mean by "generally not reported"?? Crimes are reported to the FBI via Uniform Crime Reporting standards.

When I wrote it, I meant not reported in the media.

Misdemeanors like UCW are not in the UCR. The UCR includes only violent crime and felony theft.

There is no way to know how many people who were innocently carrying handguns in their vehicles were arrested for UCW. Even if you did an open records request for information, it probably would not include the exact details leading up to the arrest.

- Jim