TexasCHLforum.com

This would really, really make me mad!

Liberty wrote:

dicion wrote: Then again, if it was a 1911 instead of some piece of BT, it would require both the trigger AND the grip safety to be pressed, in opposite directions of eachother, to fire, not to mention the thumb safety...

I'm not sayin'.. I'm just sayin.

This is not true, 1911s without a firing pin block can potentially go bang when dropped. This includes the original design 1911s, and There was a thread about a Rock Island Armory 1911 discharging in this forum

as almost anything is possible, I also believe that a mechanically sound 1911, with or without the FP safety, improbable to discharge from a drop of aprox. 4'. I read of the RIA discharge on another forum. The owner had a FP spring that was too short/or too weak.
If you can find other instances of 1911's going off from short drops, whether directly on the muzzle or otherwise please post a link or reference to that info. With or without FP safetys. Thanks in advance.

Oldgringo wrote:This would really, really make me mad!

mikeintexas wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:This would really, really make me mad!

"mad" is not really I originally said, but you get my drift and the rules are the rules.

Oldgringo wrote:

mikeintexas wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:This would really, really make me mad!

"mad" is not really I originally said, but you get my drift and the rules are the rules.

And again, !!

It got posted on fark.com

gemini wrote:

Liberty wrote:

dicion wrote: Then again, if it was a 1911 instead of some piece of BT, it would require both the trigger AND the grip safety to be pressed, in opposite directions of eachother, to fire, not to mention the thumb safety...

I'm not sayin'.. I'm just sayin.

This is not true, 1911s without a firing pin block can potentially go bang when dropped. This includes the original design 1911s, and There was a thread about a Rock Island Armory 1911 discharging in this forum

as almost anything is possible, I also believe that a mechanically sound 1911, with or without the FP safety, improbable to discharge from a drop of aprox. 4'. I read of the RIA discharge on another forum. The owner had a FP spring that was too short/or too weak.
If you can find other instances of 1911's going off from short drops, whether directly on the muzzle or otherwise please post a link or reference to that info. With or without FP safetys. Thanks in advance.

Perhaps this is the thread you are talking about:

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 23&t=16443" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was an RIA gun, dropped from waist level on the muzzle onto a hard floor. Before this incident, we'd had discussions about this very issue and the solution is a simple one: replace the stock components with a light firing pin and heavy firing pin spring. The OP did just that after the incident. Personally, I prefer this solution to the mechanical FP safety that is standard on 1911s made by other manufacturers, due to the accounts of failure directly related to the firing pin safety system that have been told here and elsewhere.

NcongruNt wrote:

gemini wrote:

Liberty wrote:

dicion wrote: Then again, if it was a 1911 instead of some piece of BT, it would require both the trigger AND the grip safety to be pressed, in opposite directions of eachother, to fire, not to mention the thumb safety...

I'm not sayin'.. I'm just sayin.

This is not true, 1911s without a firing pin block can potentially go bang when dropped. This includes the original design 1911s, and There was a thread about a Rock Island Armory 1911 discharging in this forum

as almost anything is possible, I also believe that a mechanically sound 1911, with or without the FP safety, improbable to discharge from a drop of aprox. 4'. I read of the RIA discharge on another forum. The owner had a FP spring that was too short/or too weak.
If you can find other instances of 1911's going off from short drops, whether directly on the muzzle or otherwise please post a link or reference to that info. With or without FP safetys. Thanks in advance.

Perhaps this is the thread you are talking about:

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 23&t=16443" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was an RIA gun, dropped from waist level on the muzzle onto a hard floor. Before this incident, we'd had discussions about this very issue and the solution is a simple one: replace the stock components with a light firing pin and heavy firing pin spring. The OP did just that after the incident. Personally, I prefer this solution to the mechanical FP safety that is standard on 1911s made by other manufacturers, due to the accounts of failure directly related to the firing pin safety system that have been told here and elsewhere.

I understood the RIA incident. I also understood the solution. I also think a FP safety is not necessary. A properly maintained and mechanically sound 1911 is necessary. I was looking for additional reports of incidents involving 1911's being dropped and discharging.
Liberty wrote: "This is not true, 1911s without a firing pin block can potentially go bang when dropped. This includes the original design 1911s, and ......." Just trying to find the evidence for this statement.

gemini wrote:
I understood the RIA incident. I also understood the solution. I also think a FP safety is not necessary. A properly maintained and mechanically sound 1911 is necessary. I was looking for additional reports of incidents involving 1911's being dropped and discharging.
Liberty wrote: "This is not true, 1911s without a firing pin block can potentially go bang when dropped. This includes the original design 1911s, and ......." Just trying to find the evidence for this statement.

The RIA incident should be convincing enough evidence of my claim, which wasn't outragous or particularly revealing. California bans certain 1911s because of this issue. It is a 100 year old design after all and the limitations should be pretty obvious.

I know, I know we are not supposed to speak of 1911 or Glock frailties. But shucks .. They ain't perfect. Haven't seen the perfect hand gun yet! If I ever find it I probably couldn't afford it anyway.

Liberty wrote: I know, I know we are not supposed to speak of 1911 or Glock frailties. But shucks .. They ain't perfect. Haven't seen the perfect hand gun yet! If I ever find it I probably couldn't afford it anyway.

If there was a single perfect handgun, everyone would own it :)
And then what would we argue about.. color?

Reading the original 1911 discharge thread, I still have my doubts, however, the main point from Wayyyyy back in the beginning remains.

If it's falling, don't grab for it. The worst that some guns will do, if dropped perfectly on the muzzle, is fire directly at the ground. While a ricochet or shrapnel from it hitting the ground can cause injury, It's a whole lot less of an injury then you trying to grab it when it's falling, and shooting someone directly.

_NO_ Modern guns should discharge when dropped on their side, magazine/grip, rear, etc.
If it does, I wouldn't carry it. Plain and simple.

Both my 1911's I currently own are Series 80's. One's a Colt, other's a Kimber. Both have FP Locks. Neither should fire _At All_ no matter how hard I drop/throw/etc them at any solid surface.

Liberty wrote:

gemini wrote:
I understood the RIA incident. I also understood the solution. I also think a FP safety is not necessary. A properly maintained and mechanically sound 1911 is necessary. I was looking for additional reports of incidents involving 1911's being dropped and discharging.
Liberty wrote: "This is not true, 1911s without a firing pin block can potentially go bang when dropped. This includes the original design 1911s, and ......." Just trying to find the evidence for this statement.

The RIA incident should be convincing enough evidence of my claim, which wasn't outragous or particularly revealing. California bans certain 1911s because of this issue. It is a 100 year old design after all and the limitations should be pretty obvious.

I know, I know we are not supposed to speak of 1911 or Glock frailties. But shucks .. They ain't perfect. Haven't seen the perfect hand gun yet! If I ever find it I probably couldn't afford it anyway.

The incident with the RIA appears to be caused by a FP spring that was too short. If the owner of the gun had done
a proper field strip and inspection of his weapon prior to use, it should have been obvious . As to the frailties of Glocks, I have
no knowledge as I have never owned one, field stripped one, detailed stripped one or even fired a full magazine from one.
They don't appeal to me, but alot of folks like them and I respect their personal choice of weapon.
As too the frailities of 1911's. I've yet to see it in a properly maintained, tuned and mechanically sound weapon.
Once again, what I am asking for is simple: Incident reports involving 1911's, either with or without FP
safties, discharging from being dropped. Again, I'm just looking for evidence to back up your original
statement of fact or opinion.

gemini wrote:

Liberty wrote: The RIA incident should be convincing enough evidence of my claim, which wasn't outragous or particularly revealing. California bans certain 1911s because of this issue. It is a 100 year old design after all and the limitations should be pretty obvious.

I know, I know we are not supposed to speak of 1911 or Glock frailties. But shucks .. They ain't perfect. Haven't seen the perfect hand gun yet! If I ever find it I probably couldn't afford it anyway.

The incident with the RIA appears to be caused by a FP spring that was too short. ...
Again, I'm just looking for evidence to back up your original
statement of fact or opinion.[/b]

I have no ax to grind and no desire to prove or disprove that it could happen, I was just reminding folks that it has been reported on this forum.
As far as I can tell the RIA spring in question was not worn, nor different than the factory specs, or from how it was manufactured. .. It was shorter than a springfield 1911, but there is no indication that it differed from original RIA Specs. One can choose to believe what is reported as they wish. I tend to believe a respected member of this forum that it happened as he explained it. Some people believe in the Easter bunny, but its not my responsibility to convince them otherwise. I do know the state of California drop tests handguns, and some 1911s and other guns don't pass their tests. I don't know which guns failed or passed It really doesn't matter to me.

Liberty wrote:

gemini wrote:

Liberty wrote: The RIA incident should be convincing enough evidence of my claim, which wasn't outragous or particularly revealing. California bans certain 1911s because of this issue. It is a 100 year old design after all and the limitations should be pretty obvious.

I know, I know we are not supposed to speak of 1911 or Glock frailties. But shucks .. They ain't perfect. Haven't seen the perfect hand gun yet! If I ever find it I probably couldn't afford it anyway.

The incident with the RIA appears to be caused by a FP spring that was too short. ...
Again, I'm just looking for evidence to back up your original
statement of fact or opinion.[/b]

I have no ax to grind and no desire to prove or disprove that it could happen, I was just reminding folks that it has been reported on this forum.
As far as I can tell the RIA spring in question was not worn, nor different than the factory specs, or from how it was manufactured. .. It was shorter than a springfield 1911, but there is no indication that it differed from original RIA Specs. One can choose to believe what is reported as they wish. I tend to believe a respected member of this forum that it happened as he explained it. Some people believe in the Easter bunny, but its not my responsibility to convince them otherwise. I do know the state of California drop tests handguns, and some 1911s and other guns don't pass their tests. I don't know which guns failed or passed It really doesn't matter to me.

So, no evidence, link, or reference to back up anything you posted regarding the possible discharge of a 1911 when dropped?
Interesting. California tests? The manufacturers perform the test at their own expense. Not all require a FP safety. Some are approved with only a titanium FP and a heavy duty FP spring. As of Jan 1,2007 I believe Ca. also requires a magazine disconnect/magazine safety, loaded chamber indicator on any new guns to be added to the "approved" list. Guns already on the list can stay provided the manufacturer continues to pay the fee. Rediculous. There are around 175 pages of California gun law, their state is bankrupt, 56% of the population wants to legalize canabis to add tax money to the states coffers.......like a big bowl of granola...nuts and flakes....
the drop test is about money. I 'm not grinding any axe. I just wanted to know what material, references or information you had studied to form your opinion. I'm done.

It takes a special kind of person to go to the can and accidentally shoot somebody while doing the deed

gemini wrote: So, no evidence, link, or reference to back up anything you posted regarding the possible discharge of a 1911 when dropped?
Interesting. California tests? The manufacturers perform the test at their own expense. Not all require a FP safety. Some are approved with only a titanium FP and a heavy duty FP spring. As of Jan 1,2007 I believe Ca. also requires a magazine disconnect/magazine safety, loaded chamber indicator on any new guns to be added to the "approved" list. Guns already on the list can stay provided the manufacturer continues to pay the fee. Rediculous. There are around 175 pages of California gun law, their state is bankrupt, 56% of the population wants to legalize canabis to add tax money to the states coffers.......like a big bowl of granola...nuts and flakes....
the drop test is about money. I 'm not grinding any axe. I just wanted to know what material, references or information you had studied to form your opinion. I'm done.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about? I simply stated that it could happen and that it did happen? One example has been posted in this forum and there were links posted. I don't believe I made any claims that were a stretch or couldn't be accepted as fact.
I also don't understand what California being bankrupt or opinions about the absurdity of their laws have any thing to do with the fact that certain guns can go of if dropped. My reference had nothing to do with sanity of the place or the reasonableness of their laws. Just that certain guns have gone bang You ask me to prove my claims, but I see nothing that I've posted that should require any more proof than whats already been posted. What claim am I supposed to prove? That certain 1911s could possibly go off if dropped?

I believe that you may be misreading my statements as something far more argumentative or profound than anything I intended to post. If my comments were interpeted as an attack on the holey 1911 it wasn't intended in that way. Either that you believe that an old style 70 series cant go off if dropped and that the guy posting his experiance is a liar. If you found my modest claims offensive, I'm truly sorry I didn't intend to be offensive. I thought I was bringing attention to something almost any gun owner was aware of.