30.06 (c) (3) (A) - "other document"

[A-R]

In reading austinrealtor's post, I had to ask myself why is there a little notice on the reception area counter and not on the building's entrance to the outside? Unless I'm entirely missing the point here(which is very possible), maybe something else is going on here.

If the "building" is a multi-tenant office building, and there is no 30.06 sign on the door to the entrance of the office building, then perhaps the owners(of the building) or the management company opted NOT to post that sign(or they are unaware of the laws regarding CHL). If that is the case then is logical to conclude that one of the tenants of the office building does not want a CHL holder to enter their office suite, and thus a "posting" of the 30.06 notice at the front desk reception area. They have no other option that I can think of.

On the other hand, if the building is entirely occupied by one tenant, then I have to agree, it makes no sense NOT to post at the front entrance door, and only at the reception desk.

Am I missing something here?

To clarify, this is a multi-tenant building. But this particular tenant has multiple spaces on the ground floor, including one entrance directly into its space - the same space where this 8.5x11 paper was posted on the reception counter. Perhaps the owner/management of the larger building will not allow them to post a legal 30.06 sign even on their tenant-specific entrance. But as Steve mentioned - and I agree with - a legal sign is not required to be posted at an entrance. Can be posted anywhere on the property.

My question is still whether this 8.5x11 piece of paper could be construed as legal notice under the "other document" clause. I'd like to think Steve is right and that the "card or other document" must be give to a person, not just set out for you to randomly see (which makes it more of a sign) - but the statute does not clarify this in any way that I can see.

[joe817]

Thank you austinrealtor, for the clarification. Be that the case then if it were me, I'd opt to disarm before going in that suite of offices....or not go in at all. I have no desire to test the theory of valid vs. invalid signs...or sheets of paper for that matter.

[dihappy]

Hopefully, the legislature will not have to specify between card or document, and instead pass the law allowing for us to carry anywhere/everywhere as Rick Perry would also like.

As far as this 8.5 x 11 paper, im guessing they did not want to "deface" their entrance with the "legal" 30.06 sign and figured they could place something on their reception desk and get the job done.

I dont think it cuts it, i feel this is in fact a 'sign" and it does not meet the legal requirements for a "sign".

I believe the law was written as it was with 1" letters being the minimum because they had to draw the line somewhere as to what was fair notice and something anyone could see walking in.

Anything else, card or document, should be handed to you either when entering or written as part of an employment contract/document.

I would ignore and carry.

[shootthesheet]

If it is posted then it is a sign. It doesn't matter if it is posted at the entrance or it is taped to a desk. Unless they hand you a card or document or verbally tell you it is not proper notification where that is concerned. They cannot prove a CHL holder was notified because they did not follow the sign requirements. I would say they would have to have a CHL Holders signature to prove they were given a card or other document. As well they would have to have at least a witness to prove a CHL holder was verbally notified. IANAL

[srothstein]

Steve, are you saying that an 8.5x11 sheet of paper with text in a 12 font meets the requirements of "a sign" or that it meets the requirements of the 30.06 sign?

I agree that it is "a sign", but I don't see how it could meet the specifications as defined in 30.06.

Sorry I wasn't as clear as I could be. I was saying that if it is posted, it is a sign, no matter what the size is. It could be a 3x5 card on a bulletin board and I would think it would legally be a sign. Obviously, nothing of that size would be a legally enforceable 30.06 sign though.



Austinrealtor,

Yes, there could be an argument made that you were supposed to leave the building when you see the sign inside. I don't think most courts would take that as reasonable compared to the idea of it banning past that point though. The key point would be exactly where the sign was posted, I would guess. If the area outside the sign is normally used for business or waiting, I would argue that it implied the people waiting for me (or conducting that limited business) could carry while the weapons were not wanted furhter inside. The very vagueness of the placement would work in my favor, if I was in compliance with that part.

Say that you and I go into the building and I am carrying on a CHL. We see the sign and I say that I will stay in the reception area while you take care of your business inside. I think the courts would take this as a very reasonable and legal compliance with the sign and that I am legal. If the owner did find out I was carrying, he could always ask me to leave and then the verbal notice would kick in. Since it just sounds more reasonable, I think the courts would go for it. There are a few anti-gun judges (not as many as New York fortunately) that might lean the other way, but I think our judges (as a general rule) tend to favor the reasonable even over their particular political wishes.

[Liberty]

If it is posted then it is a sign. It doesn't matter if it is posted at the entrance or it is taped to a desk. Unless they hand you a card or document or verbally tell you it is not proper notification where that is concerned. They cannot prove a CHL holder was notified because they did not follow the sign requirements. I would say they would have to have a CHL Holders signature to prove they were given a card or other document. As well they would have to have at least a witness to prove a CHL holder was verbally notified. IANAL

Just to be argumentative :

If she receptionist points to the 8.5x11 sheet of paper and ask you to make note of it. Then the sign can become "Written notice"

[boomerang]

If she receptionist points to the 8.5x11 sheet of paper and ask you to make note of it. Then the sign can become "Written notice"

If the receptionist says "NO GUNS!" that's verbal notice, even if the sign is the size of a postage stamp.