TexasCHLforum.com

I want watch this closely

Bullwhip wrote:Mr. Cotton, I read your link, seems to be in favor of Florida open carry, but your replies make me wonder if you support the same thing for Texas. Sorry if I can't read between the lines, but you posted the article and then seemed criticle of of people who supported doin the same thing here.

Clear it up please?

I am gonna jump in here. I am not gonna speak for Charles, but I can see the picture.

The issue of supporting Open Carry anywhere is this: support for it. First, you need enough parties interested in Open Carry to contact their state firearms organization or other interest group to champion their issue. Charles has stated before that the TSRA is NOT getting their doors beat down by members emails or calls wanting them to take up the charge. In fact, many whom they talk to do NOT support open carry. I would think if they had been inundated with calls/emails or a petition with lots of TSRA members requesting they chase the issue, then they would be be doing so, but they're not.

Even once you get an interest group to take up your cause, you must get a legislator to be willing to craft a bill and introduce it to the state legislature. Last session, one Representative was originally willing to take on the bill and introduce it until a few very vocal and radical individuals in the Open carry movement became arrogant and threatening and poisoned that Rep's interest in the bill. That caused her to drop it like a hot potato.

In the case of Florida, there has been enough interest and support (not sure who/what group championed the cause) to get someone in the legislature to introduce the bill. I think that any time a pro-gun bill is actually penned and introduced in any state, that unless there were major hidden pitfalls or issues that would damage other gun rights, that any state firearms organization would be in favor of it and show their support for it.

Bottom line, those that want open carry need to band together and work with whomever will take up your cause. It will take numerous people, not just one or two who are vocal. I keep hearing members on here that want it, but have seen those that are NOT members of the TSRA trying to push them to support it. Uh, if you ain't a member, you ain't got a voice IMO. Also, Charles has asked several of the level headed supporters to try and lead the charge, but no one will step up and take the reigns for whatever reason. I understand that people are busy, but if you want something badly enough, you have to carve out a plan to make it happen, and that includes time to devote to the cause. Also, there is strength in numbers, but if a group DOES get the ear of a legislator, they better be cognizant of their manners and not try bullying their way in or they too will be shunned and the issue dropped.

So, unless you and others are willing to band together in an organized effort to get open carry legislation passed, and work at it the right way, then it will not get off the ground, or at least won't make it very far.

What he said.

Bullwhip wrote:Mr. Cotton, I read your link, seems to be in favor of Florida open carry, but your replies make me wonder if you support the same thing for Texas. Sorry if I can't read between the lines, but you posted the article and then seemed criticle of of people who supported doin the same thing here.

Clear it up please?

I have said repeatedly that I do not oppose open-carry, but I have concerns about a likely backlash in the form of an onslaught of 30.06 signs on businesses. I've also said that open-carry can be promoted in a way that minimizes that risk, but that requires work to be done long before a legislative session begins. Also, with the right precautions, a bill sponsor can guard against problematic amendments to an open-carry bill. This too requires work long before the legislative session.

The problem I see with the open-carry movement in Texas is there is no organized movement and no responsible organization to mount a proper campaign. People wait until a few weeks before the legislative session, then start demanding that an open-carry bill be filed. That's not how to get it done. The NRA and Marian Hammer of the Unified Sportsmen of Florida are pursuing it correctly in Florida and I support the effort.

Now that I have answered your question, how about answering my questions about regulation of commercial property.

Chas.

The bill that was introduced also contains some other items:

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-o ... rry-reform" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...SB-234 will also allow for concealed carry on college campuses by licensed students and professors. Students for Concealed Carry on Campus was formed by...

...The bill looks to fix the parking lot issue off campus as well. Currently licensees may leave their firearms secured in their cars in private parking lots at their own places of work. SB-234 extends that protection to cover wherever you may legally park your vehicle...

...Another provision of SB-234 will allow Florida residents to purchase firearms in any other state...

...The bill also authorizes the Florida Department of Agriculture to take fingerprints for license applications...

Also, introduced:

Florida House Bill 45 aims to protect Florida gun owners
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-o ... gun-owners" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...real teeth in Florida’s firearms preemption law this year with House Bill 45. The bill would make it a 3rd degree felony for a lawmaker to knowingly skirt the state statute and provide for $5 million in fines...

Related Links:
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-o ... earms-laws" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-f ... and-abused" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-f ... on-statute" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know where my 2011 gun rights donation is going.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
I have said repeatedly that I do not oppose open-carry, but I have concerns about a likely backlash in the form of an onslaught of 30.06 signs on businesses. I've also said that open-carry can be promoted in a way that minimizes that risk, but that requires work to be done long before a legislative session begins. Also, with the right precautions, a bill sponsor can guard against problematic amendments to an open-carry bill. This too requires work long before the legislative session.

The problem I see with the open-carry movement in Texas is there is no organized movement and no responsible organization to mount a proper campaign. People wait until a few weeks before the legislative session, then start demanding that an open-carry bill be filed. That's not how to get it done. The NRA and Marian Hammer of the Unified Sportsmen of Florida are pursuing it correctly in Florida and I support the effort.

Now that I have answered your question, how about answering my questions about regulation of commercial property.

Chas.

+1!

One thing a lot of forum posters may not know - Florida does not have the equivalent of 30.06 signs - so there isn't as much to lose if businesses are upset about OC.

While open carry might be nice, if the end result is that almost all businesses, churches, etc post 30.06, then I'm much much worse off than I am today.

I think unlicensed conceal carry is a lot more realistic to prevent a 30.06 sign backlash in TX. As Chas has mentioned other times, eliminating 30.06 doesn't sound likely in Tx.

Exactly. I spend a good portion of the year in Florida and carry on my TX CHL. I have taken the FL CHL class and can verify the there is no 30.06 equivalent law in Florida so there would be no "immediate" backlash there. In Texas that is not the case and I would agree with those who think a backlash is likely.

Pyrat wrote:Exactly. I spend a good portion of the year in Florida and carry on my TX CHL. I have taken the FL CHL class and can verify the there is no 30.06 equivalent law in Florida so there would be no "immediate" backlash there. In Texas that is not the case and I would agree with those who think a backlash is likely.

I'm going to let my ignorance hang out here, and wait to be educated. Since Florida doesn't have a 30.06 equivalent, does this mean that licensed to carry is licensed to carry, i.e. a "Gunbuster" or "No Guns Allowed" sign is irrelevant to a CHL, excluding statutorily off-limits locations, or does it mean that all it takes to prevent carrying is a gunbuster or other notice?

The reason I ask is that I remember the initial backlash of 30.06 signs and efforts to prevent carry in the very beginning of CHL in Texas. That first few years, it seemed that there were very few places you *could* carry. Thankfully that has been resolved both legislatively and in most business' attitudes.

So far I think Florida's got the right idea, and we can learn a lot from how the general public and business owner reacts to licensed open carry without risking a backlash here in Texas. I'm all for carry--I don't care whether it's concealed or not, but I'm not interested in losing any of the hard-gained ground we've made with our CHL bills here.

I could really care-less that it appears that Texas is "following" the lead of Florida and other states when it comes to RKBA issues. What I do care about is that folks here in Texas are working on the issue, and that they continue to do so until we have our full Constitutional rights. I certainly don't feel like I am in a race.

Pyrat wrote:Exactly. I spend a good portion of the year in Florida and carry on my TX CHL. I have taken the FL CHL class and can verify the there is no 30.06 equivalent law in Florida so there would be no "immediate" backlash there. In Texas that is not the case and I would agree with those who think a backlash is likely.

I have lived in Florida a good part of my life. I have never been aware of any 'FL CHL' class. To the best of my knowledge there is no required curriculum to obtain their license. You must demonstrate competency with a firearm. I used my DD214 to obtain my (now expired) license. I will be in Florida for two weeks in February and plan on applying for a new license. (The new license is $114 and good for seven (7) years.)

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index. ... 90.06.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(h) Demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following:
1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;
2. Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
3. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;
4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;
6. Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or
7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;

i8godzilla wrote:

Pyrat wrote:Exactly. I spend a good portion of the year in Florida and carry on my TX CHL. I have taken the FL CHL class and can verify the there is no 30.06 equivalent law in Florida so there would be no "immediate" backlash there. In Texas that is not the case and I would agree with those who think a backlash is likely.

I have lived in Florida a good part of my life. I have never been aware of any 'FL CHL' class. To the best of my knowledge there is no required curriculum to obtain their license. You must demonstrate competency with a firearm. I used my DD214 to obtain my (now expired) license. I will be in Florida for two weeks in February and plan on applying for a new license. (The new license is $114 and good for seven (7) years.)

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index. ... 90.06.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(h) Demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following:
1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;
2. Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
3. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;
4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;
6. Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or
7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;

This is true.

I lived in FL for several years and obtained their CCW on the basis of prior training that met the requirements cited above.

cbunt1 wrote: I'm going to let my ignorance hang out here, and wait to be educated. Since Florida doesn't have a 30.06 equivalent, does this mean that licensed to carry is licensed to carry, i.e. a "Gunbuster" or "No Guns Allowed" sign is irrelevant to a CHL, excluding statutorily off-limits locations, or does it mean that all it takes to prevent carrying is a gunbuster or other notice?

In FL "Gunbuster" or "No Guns Allowed" sign is irrelevant to a CHL, excluding statutorily off-limits locations :)

artx wrote:

cbunt1 wrote: I'm going to let my ignorance hang out here, and wait to be educated. Since Florida doesn't have a 30.06 equivalent, does this mean that licensed to carry is licensed to carry, i.e. a "Gunbuster" or "No Guns Allowed" sign is irrelevant to a CHL, excluding statutorily off-limits locations, or does it mean that all it takes to prevent carrying is a gunbuster or other notice?

In FL "Gunbuster" or "No Guns Allowed" sign is irrelevant to a CHL, excluding statutorily off-limits locations :)

Here are the basics of where you cannot carry:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapon ... ssion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The following is a list of places where you are restricted from carrying a weapon or firearm even if you have a license. Please note that this is a simplified list. The places marked by an asterisk (*) may have exceptions or additional restrictions. See Section 790.06 (12), Florida Statutes for a complete listing.

o any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05
o any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station
o any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse
o any courtroom*
o any polling place
o any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district
o any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof
o any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms
o any school administration building
o any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption*
o any elementary or secondary school facility
o any area technical center
o any college or university facility*
o inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport*
o any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law

Our elected officials are unwilling to do anything they didn't have a safety net of support to rely on when the media and power brokers started bashing them. I don't expect any real improvements toward rights based gun laws in this state until they are forced. I do appreciate the little measures they pass but it is frustrating to wait two years for them to meet only to learn they are trying to pass things that other states did when adopting right to carry laws. I know the reasons they give and I can appreciate them. I just cannot applaud them for trying to give us pieces of something we were given full control over when the country was founded. It smells of a slave mentality when we have complete ownership and control of the plantation.