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If you want the Nikon M-223 1-4x; there is a forum member that has them for $171.00 OTD

Carry-a-Kimber wrote:If you want the Nikon M-223 1-4x; there is a forum member that has them for $171.00 OTD>

Can you post or PM which one?

Eotech or Aimpoint for a defensive gun or for matches that won't push you past a couple hundred yards often. You'll be glad you did.

Maybe I should not introduce this topic here. Anyone uses a quality Red laser/light on 556 rifle?

Are optics that big of a deal? I am thinking of putting together an AR15, and I see people all the time with optics on them talking about 100 yard shots and so on. I guess I am just old school or something.
When i was in the Army we use to shoot 300 meter targets all the time with iron sights. Do optics make it easier to do so?

When i was in the Army we use to shoot 300 meter targets all the time with iron sights. Do optics make it easier to do so?

Yes and no...

Yes, because a magnified optic allows a shooter with good fundamentals to achieve a clearer and more precise sight picture, and gives easy to see visual feed back about the stability of their position and hold. Red dot sights simplify the sight picture by eliminating the need to achieve proper sight alignment (front and rear), which can increase speed, and help some shooters avoid some common aiming errors.

No, because a shooter with poor fundamentals will make errors impacting the flight of the round regardless of the optic. Poor fundamentals trump good optics every time, and NCO's are STILL having to teach troops how to shoot once they get to their units, with, or without optics.

IMO, unless you want more precision at range, or need a magnified optic for target recognition, irons or a red dot sight are all one would need.

Carry-a-Kimber wrote:If you want the Nikon M-223 1-4x; there is a forum member that has them for $171.00 OTD

who?

Mr.ViperBoa wrote:Are optics that big of a deal? I am thinking of putting together an AR15, and I see people all the time with optics on them talking about 100 yard shots and so on. I guess I am just old school or something.
When i was in the Army we use to shoot 300 meter targets all the time with iron sights. Do optics make it easier to do so?

It is all about how big is your target and at what distance. At bench shooting, with my hunting rifle and 24X bushnell, I can drive few shots 1-2" apart and hit an 8" steel at 400 yrd. With Iron sight I expect to hit man size target at 100 to 300 yrd that is anywhere in 20" taeget.

I guess the best is to find the best combo of CQ aiming device and best scope to hit expected targets at expected distances.

My eyes are getting older.

Mr.ViperBoa wrote:Are optics that big of a deal? I am thinking of putting together an AR15, and I see people all the time with optics on them talking about 100 yard shots and so on. I guess I am just old school or something.
When i was in the Army we use to shoot 300 meter targets all the time with iron sights. Do optics make it easier to do so?

We were also trying to hit just a man sized target. Optics are used for precision shooting, in other words going for the head shot at 300 yds.

Texas Dan Mosby wrote:No, because a shooter with poor fundamentals will make errors impacting the flight of the round regardless of the optic. Poor fundamentals trump good optics every time

I agree with this. It is also the reason I always recommend starting with the basics when teaching someone new. Do not let them learn to shoot with optics, as it might hide other flaws at short ranges. I also start children on single shot rifles to slow them down and avoid the spray and pray when they are learning.

The basics are much more important than any equipment you can buy.

srothstein wrote:. I also start children on single shot rifles to slow them down and avoid the spray and pray when they are learning.

The basics are much more important than any equipment you can buy.

We have a Cricket .22 that has been passed around to 3 families already for their smaller children to learn on. Bolt action single shot with a lock.

Well, I dont have a sig 556, but I do have a Rockriver LAR-15 with an Acog on top... you're more than welcome to try it out if ya want...

They're definitely more expensive than an EOtech, but for 50yds+ they're unbeatable in my opinion. I use it all the time hog hunting, and at night that tritium crosshair is awesome. Optics are freakin clear as day... virtually unbreakable, etc... They're prety good at close range, and I've definitely used inside of 20 yards, but if you're shooting more often at <50 yards, I'd say you're prolly better off with an EOtech.

Note: You can get an EOtech style holo sight for on top of your ACOG, but it'll cost ya. I've played with one, but it was daytime and about 50 yards (I only got 5 rounds in that guys rifle)... it was nice, but I don't have enough experience to say either way on that...

if you want to play with my AR and its ACOG, shoot me off an email. firefighter.bmfd@gmail.com

EDIT: I also live in the DFW area...

firefighter3217 wrote:Well, I dont have a sig 556, but I do have a Rockriver LAR-15 with an Acog on top... you're more than welcome to try it out if ya want...

They're definitely more expensive than an EOtech, but for 50yds+ they're unbeatable in my opinion. I use it all the time hog hunting, and at night that tritium crosshair is awesome. Optics are freakin clear as day... virtually unbreakable, etc... They're prety good at close range, and I've definitely used inside of 20 yards, but if you're shooting more often at <50 yards, I'd say you're prolly better off with an EOtech.

Note: You can get an EOtech style holo sight for on top of your ACOG, but it'll cost ya. I've played with one, but it was daytime and about 50 yards (I only got 5 rounds in that guys rifle)... it was nice, but I don't have enough experience to say either way on that...

if you want to play with my AR and its ACOG, shoot me off an email. firefighter.bmfd@gmail.com

EDIT: I also live in the DFW area...

Thanks for the offer. I will keep this in mind. I am just eagerly awating warm weather to have a chance to get my new rifle to the range.

Beiruty wrote:I guess the best is to find the best combo of CQ aiming device and best scope to hit expected targets at expected distances.

My eyes are getting older.

That's why I made the recommendation I made near the beginning of this thread. It doesn't have to be an EOTech because that's what I have, but some kind of quality red dot sight, combined with a magnifier on a flip to side mount, really is the best option. You get a bright aiming point without magnification for CQB scenarios, and a low level magnification for mid-range shots. You only use both when you need to. And you always have iron sights for a backup if you experience some kind of system failure. And if you don't like the idea of two pieces to your optics and you have the money, buy an ACOG. But don't buy into the notion that iron sights are better just because. Times change, and even a sometimes hidebound military takes advantage of new stuff when it really is better.

Yes, the military teaches you to shoot a man-sized target at 300 meters with iron sights; but look at what soldiers and marines are actually carrying into battle these days. Virtually every rifle in every photograph taken in combat that you can see has some kind of optic mounted on it. If straight irons were better, or optics unnecessary, why on earth would a military combatant choose to add the weight of optics to an otherwise perfectly good weapon — when he could choose to carry a little more ammo instead? These days, iron sights should be a backup system. You should know how to use them and be proficient with them, but given that there is better equipment available, and given your own comment about aging eyes (which is my problem also), some kind of red dot holographic sight combined with some kind of low level magnification really is the best choice.

new option:

The scope has two modes: a high-resolution 1x reflex sight with red-dot reticle for close quarter engagement, plus a 2-8x40 long-range zoom sight with Mil-dot reticle for long-range sighting. The product includes two separate aiming systems, each viewed through the same sight window. The user can switch between modes with the flip of a lever, with no head movement and without looking away from the target.

http://www.opticstalk.com/kruger-dual-t ... 27082.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Offical site: http://www.krugeroptical.com/ko-tactica ... s-next.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;