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Keith B wrote:

wgoforth wrote:

mikeloc wrote:We always refer to Section 46.035, but we seem to forget that a hospital must post under 411.204
GC §411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES
(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code,
or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or
nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements
of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign
include on its face the number "51".
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.
Therefore a hospital is required to post a sign saying it’s illegal to carry even though we can carry as long as they do not post 30.06.

Mike

No... a hospital is not required to post... same with a church also listed. Penal codes are written like the Constitution. When changed, they do not remove a law, they amend it in another section. This law WAS the law but amended by legislation 2 years later. Read to the end of the section and you will see: (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Actually, yes they are required to post. They must post the 51% sign with the verbiage only, not the red 51%. However, this doesn't cause use to not be able to carry unless they post a 30.06. Mike's comments were correct.

Hmm, I have only ever seen one hospital to post the wording of the 51%. If required, they sure are out of compliance!

It's a legal requirements for which there is no penalty for the hospital. As far as I can tell, no state agency is charged with enforcing it.

I've seen all manner of signage on hospitals and a few nursing homes, from generic gunbuster signs to signs that some amateur lawyer must have devised that are neither the 51% nor 30.06 verbiage.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:It's a legal requirements for which there is no penalty for the hospital. As far as I can tell, no state agency is charged with enforcing it.

I've seen all manner of signage on hospitals and a few nursing homes, from generic gunbuster signs to signs that some amateur lawyer must have devised that are neither the 51% nor 30.06 verbiage.

- Jim

We did have the wording of the 51% w/o the Red 51% at a local convenience store. They finally removed it.

couzin wrote:Most of the Baylor Dr. and lab offices I've been in are not posted. Their hospitals and outpatient units are posted (again, the ones I've been in - Fort Worth hospital district (Hospital and outpatient), Grapevine (hospital and offices - same building), the Baylor Terrell Dr. and lab offices).

The east entrance to the medical offices building attached to the east side of Baylor Grapevine on the south side of the multi-level parking structure is most definitely NOT posted. I'm in and out of there with regularity. Since all the other entrances to the buildings are posted, and since this entrance is fairly busy, I am convinced that it not posted by design. There IS a sign there that, at a quick glance, looks like it might be a 30.06 sign, but it is actually an admonition to not smoke anywhere inside the premises.

I'll try to take a picture the next time I'm there and post it here.

The Annoyed Man wrote:Since all the other entrances to the buildings are posted, and since this entrance is fairly busy, I am convinced that it not posted by design.

What do you mean by that? Do you mean they intentionally posted some entrances and not others?

- Jim

The Annoyed Man wrote:The east entrance to the medical offices building attached to the east side of Baylor Grapevine on the south side of the multi-level parking structure is most definitely NOT posted. I'm in and out of there with regularity.

Admittedly it has been over a year since there - but the north entrance into the professional offices from the top of the north parking garage was posted (a hospital entrance is over to the right (west looking) (again - way over a year ago). I parked in the handicapped right near the door and could clearly see it. Maybe it has changed. I never went in the east entrance. "By design" though - I would wonder why? If professional side is not posted, then are there signs going through the portal to the hospital side?

I was at Plaza Medical Center in Fort Worth last week and noticed a 30.06 posted at the ER entrance, but the main hospital entrance is not posted.

I didn't carry, since I came in through the ER entrance the first time, and main entrance the 2nd, but I'm assuming I could legally carry, since all entrances are not posted, is this correct?

aggie_wes wrote:I didn't carry, since I came in through the ER entrance the first time, and main entrance the 2nd, but I'm assuming I could legally carry, since all entrances are not posted, is this correct?

No, it is not correct.

PC 30.06 requires only that the sign be "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public." There is no consideration of large buildings with multiple entrances and separate rooms (such as a hospital or shopping mall).

Also, no one has tried to persuade me that Baylor is not a university property and would not be treated as such by the police and prosecutors.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Since all the other entrances to the buildings are posted, and since this entrance is fairly busy, I am convinced that it not posted by design.

What do you mean by that? Do you mean they intentionally posted some entrances and not others?

- Jim

I think so. I really do. There is a medical offices building that is kind of grafted onto one side of the hospital building. It is possible to access the hospital from within the medical offices building, but nobody really goes through that entrance except outpatients visiting their doctors. In other words, it isn't really part of the hospital. It's pretty much for doctor's office visits only. This is a pretty conservative area. People don't really panic about guns, I've noticed.

couzin wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:The east entrance to the medical offices building attached to the east side of Baylor Grapevine on the south side of the multi-level parking structure is most definitely NOT posted. I'm in and out of there with regularity.

Admittedly it has been over a year since there - but the north entrance into the professional offices from the top of the north parking garage was posted (a hospital entrance is over to the right (west looking) (again - way over a year ago). I parked in the handicapped right near the door and could clearly see it. Maybe it has changed. I never went in the east entrance. "By design" though - I would wonder why? If professional side is not posted, then are there signs going through the portal to the hospital side?

Yes, you are correct about that entrance you used. My wife had to see a doctor through that entrance just a week ago, and she had to disarm and leave her gun in the car. But the east entrance into the medical offices building, on the ground floor, is most definitely not posted. As I said above, I'm pretty sure you can access the hospital from the offices building, but I've never actually used that means of entering the hospital proper, so I can't tell you if that particular entrance to the hospital is posted or not.

This is a public reference to the medical residency program at Garland:

http://www.baylorhealth.edu/Education/R ... lities.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It looks like residents work in that facility under faculty supervision as part of their education.

I've said my piece. There's no case law in this area. Do what you think is best.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:This is a public reference to the medical residency program at Garland:

http://www.baylorhealth.edu/Education/R ... lities.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It looks like residents work in that facility under faculty supervision as part of their education.

I've said my piece. There's no case law in this area. Do what you think is best.

- Jim

I hear you, I just don't think the law applies here, because this isn't really part of the hospital, although it shares some structural features with the hospital. It isn't a teaching area. It isn't an inpatient area. It isn't a hospital admin or support services area. It is simply a more or less separate wing of the building that is occupied entirely by doctor's offices, and it has its own separate entrance from the other entrances that go into the "hospital" part of the structures.