TexasCHLforum.com

i8godzilla wrote:

Bullwhip wrote:"Who's the buyers?"

1. suckers
2. people who don't understand ballistics.

For snakes, yeah, ok, but you can get snakeshot for almost any revolver. Those revolvers are better as regular revolvers too.

Really? What makes you an expert?

Yes, I have a Judge. I have dispatched ~10 rattlesnakes this year alone. I carry my EDC AND the Judge when working on my property. I do not wish to have to remember to change the ammo in my EDC every time I leave the property or come back.

Bullwhip wrote:Those revolvers are better as regular revolvers too.

Why are all other revolvers better than the Judge? Since you apparently claim to be an expert in ballistics, how is a .45 round coming out of any other revolver superior to the Judge? I would really like to know as it my change my opinion of the Judge. THANKS!

PONED! This is going to be fun. I hope he has the courage to come back and defend his assertions.

I don't own either revolver. I can see the usefulness, but I just don't feel a pressing need for one, and I don't have the collector's itch to buy one. What I found remarkable is that, for once, S&W is imitating Taurus, instead of the other way around, which seems to be the norm.

Someone once said about the Judge ...
"You don't know why you want one, you just know you want one".

"You don't know why you want one, you just know you want one".

i said that on all my guns!

I have had mine several years, fun to shoot. I carry it at the ranch, snakes do not enjoy meeting the judge at all. My wife loves to shoot it at the range with .45 Colt. It stays in the nightstand loaded with .410 PDX1. Only complaint I have is cleaning it after alot of shooting. I clean all my guns after firing them, but the barrel of the judge accumulates more junk than any other gun I own.

I have the Judge, stainless with 2.5" cylinder and 3" ported barrel. Obviously it's not a carry gun...but I think it's great for home defense. They're very fun to shoot and do some serious damage when loaded with the PDX1's.

I own a "Public Defender" model. Nice revolver. In stainless. The friends dig it. It is a blast to shoot. I carry it on the property and on the boat. It is also the little womans night stand gun. All with .410 chambered. Pretty fun with .45LC also.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

i8godzilla wrote:

Bullwhip wrote:"Who's the buyers?"

1. suckers
2. people who don't understand ballistics.

For snakes, yeah, ok, but you can get snakeshot for almost any revolver. Those revolvers are better as regular revolvers too.

Really? What makes you an expert?

Yes, I have a Judge. I have dispatched ~10 rattlesnakes this year alone. I carry my EDC AND the Judge when working on my property. I do not wish to have to remember to change the ammo in my EDC every time I leave the property or come back.

Bullwhip wrote:Those revolvers are better as regular revolvers too.

Why are all other revolvers better than the Judge? Since you apparently claim to be an expert in ballistics, how is a .45 round coming out of any other revolver superior to the Judge? I would really like to know as it my change my opinion of the Judge. THANKS!

PONED! This is going to be fun. I hope he has the courage to come back and defend his assertions.

I don't own either revolver. I can see the usefulness, but I just don't feel a pressing need for one, and I don't have the collector's itch to buy one. What I found remarkable is that, for once, S&W is imitating Taurus, instead of the other way around, which seems to be the norm.

i8godzilla didn't read my whole post (I said they were good for snakes), now you want to egg on a fight. No thanks.

If anyone thinks I'm wrong, go ahead and post your ballistics. Any other .45 LC revolver you want versus the huge heavy "Judge", don't forget the wasted freebore before the slug hits the barrel, and see if there's any advantage to a thicker longer 5-shot instead of a more compact 6 shot firing the same round.

No .410 shell out of a 3 inch barrel is worth spit except against snakes and critters at less than 10' range. Show me your ballsitics if you think I'm wrong.

Or just go look at the Big Box O Truth site, they have a whole section about the Judge and .410 revolver.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't mean so insult anybody but I think most people who buy this gun for defense against people instead of snakes are just living in a fantasy that it's the same as a handheld 12 gauge. It's not.

Bullwhip wrote:I don't mean so insult anybody....

But you did, ballistics aside, and that was my point as well as i8godzilla's. It goes without saying that a .45 LC cartridge will be more efficient coming out of a 6" rifled barrel. It goes without saying that a .410 bore shotshell will be more efficient coming out of a 20" barrel. Nobody really said otherwise. I own and often carry a scandium .357 with a 1-7/8" barrel. It goes without saying that a .357 magnum will be more efficient coming out of a 6" barrel, but that doesn't make my snubby ineffective for personal defense. My guess is that, ballistics notwithstanding, you're not going to be any more likely to volunteer to step in front of a .45 LC fired from a Judge than you would be to step in front of a .357 round fired from my scandium snubby.

I think that it is also a fair guess that a large number of people buy a Judge for the same reason that one might buy a Bond Arms derringer—the sheer novelty of owning one, and the fun of shooting it. That doesn't really need any other justification.

You insulted i8godzilla, and he put you in your place. I call that "poned." I merely made a wry comment about it. You could have simply apologized. Instead, you talked down as if everyone else is ignorant about firearms. I don't own one of these things, so I don't really have a dog in the fight, but I do have a sense of right and wrong. In my opinion, you were wrong both times.

But I'm not going to drag this thing out any further. Act any old way you want to.

Bullwhip wrote:
No .410 shell out of a 3 inch barrel is worth spit except against snakes and critters at less than 10' range. Show me your ballsitics if you think I'm wrong.

Or just go look at the Big Box O Truth site, they have a whole section about the Judge and .410 revolver.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't mean so insult anybody but I think most people who buy this gun for defense against people instead of snakes are just living in a fantasy that it's the same as a handheld 12 gauge. It's not.

I don't mean to step into the fight....but the BOT link you used doesn't prove much....butcher any type of ammo, and you'll get lousy results....

Maybe you should use this link instead..... http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53.htm

Thanks for holding your fire.....

@Bullwhip--

I was not trying to pick a fight. Wednesday was not a good day for me. After spending all dayTuesday on an osmoprep (most men over 50 should be able to relate), I received a call at 6:00 AM that my procedure was cancelled. I guess it put me in a crappy mood (pun intended!).

The point I poorly tried to make was that the Judge is a tool that has a particular use. To me the primary use is snakes. (My property has a 30' rock bluff that faces south and the snakes love the view.) Just like my workshop with various types of hammers each has a specific use--I rarely use a large ball-peen on a finishing nail. The Judge is no different.

surprise_i'm_armed wrote: Surprisingly to me, Smith and Wesson has now come out with a similar revolver known as The Governor.
They have improved upon the Judge by making it 6 rounds instead of 5.
A further improvement they have made is allowing it to use .45 Long Colt, .45 ACP, and .410 shotgun shells.

Please comment on your experiences/perceptions of the Judge/Governor style of revolvers.
Have the Judge sales stats been so good that SW had to come up with the Governor to take market share?

TIA / SIA

Yes, Taurus has been selling the heck out of the various Judges so S+W decided that they wanted some of that high dollar snake gun pie.

These are my perceptions.

As a self defense gun it has a lot of problems. Limited capacity and slow to reload. Well, my J-frame has some of the same issues but it is much more concealable and with speed loaders I can get a shot to shot reload time of around 4 seconds. I don't think they make any 5 shot 45 LC speed loaders for the Judge, it would be interesting to see if the ones for a S+W 25-5 would work on the S+W Governor.

410 shot shells are not proven self defense performers. The latest Box Of Truth link showed that some of the loads did have adequate penetration but most did not. Additionally, when shot out of a rifled barrel, pellets spread way to much to keep on a target. Look at the last page in this BOT feature.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

#6 birdshot goes off a 18" X 25" target at 7 yards.
#4 buck goes off a 18" X 25" target at 7 yards.
PDX1 load goes off a 18" X 25" target at 7 yards.

What happens when your attacker is at 10 yards? 15? What are you going to do about those stray pellets or buckshot that are flying down range. If he's 8 yards down the hallway with the kids bedroom beyond, what are you going to do?

Taurus pretty much markets this gun as a self defense gun. It looks very intimidating at first glance. But, IMHO, It's a very poor choice for self defense. Heavy, limited capacity, slow to manipulate and inaccurate with shot shells.

The commercials look cool, though.

Gringop

They do make speed loaders for the .45 LC.

sookandy wrote:They do make speed loaders for the .45 LC.

http://www.hksspeedloaders.com/SpeedloaderPage.html

The .45LC speedloader (25-5) is a six-rounder.....but, IIRC, the 5-round .44SPL one (CA-44) will also work for .45LC and .410 shells....and there's always Tuff-Strips.... https://www.tuffproducts.com/home.php?cat=265

Well, I'm pleased to see this thread continuing.
It's brought out many forum members from whom we usually don't hear.

If anyone is interested in 1 of these niche style revolvers, it seems that the SW Governor would be the new winner
in the sales game since it has 6 rounds instead of 5, as well as the added ability to chamber .45 ACP.

SIA

Ya the CA-44 is the one I use.