The Annoyed Man wrote:gigag04 wrote:Shots were fired at FBI personell in a helicopter at Ruby Ridge. The FBI's HRT was called in to both areas because BATF agents drew fire and screwed up their initial contact (Waco and Ruby Ridge).
Weaver and his sons fired at federal personell on the ground. They used their female family members as shields and holed for a fight.
This info is based on first hand stories from HRT guys that were there.
Who, of course, tell the HRT side of the story. How did they explain illegally changing the ROE, and how did they explain the findings at trial? I'm not trying to impugn the reputation of HRT. I'm sure that they are like all other LEOs—for the most part good and honorable men and women who seek to do a difficult job as well as they possibly can. And like I said above, Randy Weaver was a racist pig. But even unsympathetic racist pigs, ironically, have rights, and once in a while you do get rogue cops who take liberty with the truth. It seems to me that Weaver's attorney was able to successfully demonstrate at trial that his client's rights had been violated, and the court found that to be true. Weaver's settlement award entirely depended on the truth or falsehood of those allegations, as proven at trial. So how do your friends at HRT square their version with the findings at trial?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
The 1993 trial jury accepted the defense theory of the firefight and acquitted Harris on grounds of self-defense. In 1997 Boundary County Sheriff Greg Sprungl conducted an independent search of the "Y" and Lucien Haag confirmed that a bullet found in that search matched Cooper's gun and contained fibers that matched Sammy Weaver's shirt.[39]) [contradicting testimony of the Marshalls]
The Denver FBI SWAT team assigned to Ruby Ridge thought the ROE were "crazy" and agreed among themselves to follow the FBI deadly force policy. However, most of the FBI HRT sniper/observers accepted the ROE as modifying the deadly force policy. Examples: HRT sniper Dale Monroe saw the ROE as a "green light" to shoot armed adult males on sight and HRT sniper Edward Wenger believed that if he observed armed adults, he could use deadly force, but he was to follow standard deadly force policy for all other individuals.
Fred Lanceley, the FBI Hostage Negotiator at Ruby Ridge, was "surprised and shocked" at the ROE, the most severe rules he had ever heard in his over 300 hostage situations and characterized the ROE as inconsistent with standard policy.[45] A later Senate report criticized the ROE as "virtual shoot-on-sight orders."[10]
Horiuchi fired a second bullet, which passed through Vicki Weaver's head, killing her, and wounded Harris in the chest. Vicki Weaver was standing behind the door through which Harris was entering the house, holding their 10-month-old baby Elisheba[47] in her arms.[48]
The Department of Justice Office of Professional Responsibility Ruby Ridge Task Force Report (June 10, 1994) stated in section I. Executive Summary subhead B. Significant Findings that the second shot did not satisfy constitutional standards for legal use of deadly force.The OPR review also found the lack of a request to surrender was "inexcusable", since Harris and the two Weavers were running for cover without returning fire and were not an imminent threat. The task force also specifically blamed Horiuchi for firing through the door, not knowing whether someone was on the other side of it. While controversy exists as to who is responsible for approving the ROE that were being followed by the sniper, the task force also condemned the so-called "rules of engagement" allowing shots to be fired with no request for surrender.[46]
Both FBI HQ and the Site Commanders in Idaho re-evaluated the situation based on information they were receiving from US Marshals Hunt, Cooper and Roderick about what had happened on August 21. On about August 24, 1992, the fourth day of the siege on the Weaver family, FBI Deputy Assistant Director Danny Coulson wrote a memo:
OPR 004477
Something to Consider
1. Charge against Weaver is ********. [my edit to remove colorful language]
2. No one saw Weaver do any shooting.
3. Vicki has no charges against her.
4. Weaver's defense. He ran down the hill to see what dog was
barking at. Some guys in camys shot his dog.
Started shooting at him. Killed his son. Harris did the
shooting [of Degan]. He [Weaver] is in pretty strong legal position."[50]
On August 26, 1992, 10:53 a.m., the Rules of Engagement that had been in effect since the arrival of the HRT on August 22 were revoked
Weaver was ultimately acquitted of all charges except missing his original court date and violating his bail conditions, for which he was sentenced to 18 months and fined $10,000. Credited with time served, Weaver spent an additional 4 months in prison. Harris was acquitted of all charges.
Both the internal 1994 Ruby Ridge Task Force Report and the public 1995 Senate subcommittee report on Ruby Ridge criticized the rules of engagement as unconstitutional.
The surviving members of the Weaver family filed a wrongful death suit. To avoid trial and a possibly higher settlement, the federal government awarded Randy Weaver a $100,000 settlement and his three daughters $1 million each in August 1995
But hey, what does a county Sheriff, an FBI Swat team, an FBI Hostage Negotiator, an asst. FBI director, a trial jury, an internal task force, Senate subcommittee, an FBI Director, US government attorneys, and the DOJ know? --and it's not like someone accused of doing something wrong might act in their own self-interest and do something like shade the truth, or anything.
