TexasCHLforum.com

3dfxMM wrote:I was pointing out that the law doesn't actually say the sign has to be posted for it to be illegal to carry in a 51% establishment. A defense to prosecution was recently added for the case where the sign is not posted, but the presence of the sign has no bearing on whether or not it is illegal for a CHL to carry there.

If you wish to be so technical, then it is illegal to carry a concealed firearm onto property or land or in a building that forbids entry with a handgun. It is merely a defense to prosecution that the person holds a CHL.

From 30.05:

(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and (2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry
a concealed handgun of the same category the person was carrying.

In either case, the onus effectively rests upon the person or entity who controls the property to post the proper sign (51% or 30.06). It is the responsibility of the person or entity who controls the property to post the appropriate signs.

I've recently inquired about a Business on the TABC site to find what they have on the site isn't accurate/up to date.

Big Shot's Sports Cafe in Bedford shows to be Blue on the TABC website but they post a 51%. I called the manager to ask why the 51% sign when the TABC site states they should be Blue and he contends they are defiantly 51% and the TABC gave them the 51% sign.

TABC say they are 51% and when they renew their license it will reflect it at that time. Not sure if the person I called at TABC had a clue on what they were talking about and couldn’t explain why they show them to have a Blue sign????

Now that you admitted you know the website is wrong, you lost that defense.

kgdotcom wrote:I've recently inquired about a Business on the TABC site to find what they have on the site isn't accurate/up to date.

Big Shot's Sports Cafe in Bedford shows to be Blue on the TABC website but they post a 51%. I called the manager to ask why the 51% sign when the TABC site states they should be Blue and he contends they are defiantly 51% and the TABC gave them the 51% sign.

TABC say they are 51% and when they renew their license it will reflect it at that time. Not sure if the person I called at TABC had a clue on what they were talking about and couldn’t explain why they show them to have a Blue sign????

The TABC sends businesses BOTH signs (or at least they used to), and they are supposed to put the correct one up depending on their license

One of two things is possible:

either their current license was less than 51% and they recently got audited and found to be more than 51%, so they are changing their license

-or-

The database has an error.

The one to way to tell now is to go look at their current license on the wall now. If it says SIGN=RED, then they are 51%. If is says SIGN=BLUE, then they aren't. The license posted is the one that is supposed to be valid and in effect.

A 51% establishment cannot allow folks under 18 on the premises.

I'm certain that isn't true. Minors can't sit at the bar and they have to leave by 9pm.

Don't count on the TABC to be on the side of gun holders. I found it (TABC) to be just the opposite. I will go so far as to say they were anti-gun in a very big way.

lws380 wrote:Don't count on the TABC to be on the side of gun holders. I found it (TABC) to be just the opposite. I will go so far as to say they were anti-gun in a very big way.

Maybe they're just against people trying to make something a gun issue when it really isn't.

If a licensee didn't post the right signs, complain about that. There's no need to mention guns. They are required to post certain signs so complain about the signs and only the signs unless you're trying to confuse the issue.

Anyway, we know that TABC was responsive to adding the sign information (RED or BLUE) to the online query, so there's at least one person at TABC who is pro CHL or very focused on serving the public.

dolderxl wrote:

A 51% establishment cannot allow folks under 18 on the premises.

I'm certain that isn't true. Minors can't sit at the bar and they have to leave by 9pm.

Where is that in the law? I know some country dance halls that are 51% but don't kick out families at 9pm.

Lambda Force wrote:

dolderxl wrote:

A 51% establishment cannot allow folks under 18 on the premises.

I'm certain that isn't true. Minors can't sit at the bar and they have to leave by 9pm.

Where is that in the law? I know some country dance halls that are 51% but don't kick out families at 9pm.

Actually, minors can drink in Texas if the are with their parent, adult legal guardian or adult spouse.

Keith B wrote:

kgdotcom wrote:I've recently inquired about a Business on the TABC site to find what they have on the site isn't accurate/up to date.

Big Shot's Sports Cafe in Bedford shows to be Blue on the TABC website but they post a 51%. I called the manager to ask why the 51% sign when the TABC site states they should be Blue and he contends they are defiantly 51% and the TABC gave them the 51% sign.

TABC say they are 51% and when they renew their license it will reflect it at that time. Not sure if the person I called at TABC had a clue on what they were talking about and couldn’t explain why they show them to have a Blue sign????

The TABC sends businesses BOTH signs (or at least they used to), and they are supposed to put the correct one up depending on their license

One of two things is possible:

either their current license was less than 51% and they recently got audited and found to be more than 51%, so they are changing their license

-or-

The database has an error.

The one to way to tell now is to go look at their current license on the wall now. If it says SIGN=RED, then they are 51%. If is says SIGN=BLUE, then they aren't. The license posted is the one that is supposed to be valid and in effect.

Or the manager could be lying his tuckus off and doesn't like guns and doesn't want them in his place.

Keith B wrote:Actually, minors can drink in Texas if the are with their parent, adult legal guardian or adult spouse.

I hate it when I say something clearly, and then my kids ask if I am serious...but are you serious? I could take my 16 year old, or my 11 year old into a bar and buy them a whiskey sour?

RJ

johnson0317 wrote:I hate it when I say something clearly, and then my kids ask if I am serious...but are you serious? RJ

I know what you're talking about. I have one of those and she's only 9.

johnson0317 wrote:

Keith B wrote:Actually, minors can drink in Texas if the are with their parent, adult legal guardian or adult spouse.

I hate it when I say something clearly, and then my kids ask if I am serious...but are you serious? I could take my 16 year old, or my 11 year old into a bar and buy them a whiskey sour?

RJ

Yes, he is serious and correct. The only law on this says they must stay in your presence. If you get up to go to the bathroom or dance, they must not have the drink in front of them.

Basically, it is one of the few areas where the law still recognizes the right of parents to raise their children as they desire.

Just so you can see it, here is the law:

Sec. 106.04. CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL BY A MINOR.
...
(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the alcoholic beverage was consumed in the visible presence of the minor's adult parent, guardian, or spouse.

johnson0317 wrote:

Keith B wrote:Actually, minors can drink in Texas if the are with their parent, adult legal guardian or adult spouse.

I hate it when I say something clearly, and then my kids ask if I am serious...but are you serious? I could take my 16 year old, or my 11 year old into a bar and buy them a whiskey sour?

RJ

From the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code:

Sec. 106.06. PURCHASE OF ALCOHOL FOR A MINOR; FURNISHING ALCOHOL TO A MINOR
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b) of this section, a person commits an offense if he purchases an alcoholic beverage for or gives or with criminal negligence makes available an alcoholic beverage to a minor.
(b) A person may purchase an alcoholic beverage for or give an alcoholic beverage to a minor if he is the minor's adult parent, guardian, or spouse, or an adult in whose custody the minor has been committed by a court, and he is visibly present when the minor possesses or consumes the alcoholic beverage.

and

Sec.106.04. CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL BY A MINOR
(a) A minor commits an offense if he consumes an alcoholic beverage.
(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the alcoholic beverage was consumed in the visible presence of the minor's adult parent, guardian, or spouse.

I presume the intent was directed more at wine for religious & cultural ceremonies than tequila shots during Spring Break.

Wow. I don't think any of my kids have the desire, but I really did not think I could do that. I have always told my oldest (17), that when she hit 21 I was going to take her to the boats and buy her a drink. Gee. Strange. Do you think the people who serve the alcohol are aware of that law?

Bet my wife doesn't know that!

RJ