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C-dub wrote:As deplorable as what they all did is, what NCAA rule did they break? Maybe the did break some NCAA rule, IDK. Whatever rule it might have been it couldn't possibly be justified with the punishment they have handed down. The guilty will be punished by the legal system. The NCAA had no business sticking their noses in this and I hope the school does appeal this and win.

The U of Penn administration not only agreed that the NCAA did have the right to impose the penalties it did, but they also agreed (by signing the NCAA's proposal) to the factuality of all of the charges levied in the report by the former FBI Director, admitting that everything the Freech report said heppened, did indeed happen. They will not sue the NCAA - they're happy as pigs in a mud bath that the penalties weren't worse, such as the so-called "death penalty".

The justice system has no way to deal with the "school" - it can only punish individuals. By allowing the reputation of the school's football program, and their coach, to drive their decision to not protect innocent children (remember, the administration of the school knew for 10 YEARS that Sandusky had abused children IN THEIR OWN FACILITIES and did NOTHING about it ) they violated the basic duty of humanity - to protect those who can't protect themselves.

I don't know what authority the NCAA has....but they did it and Penn St agreed...sounds like a done deal to me. I also think they deserved more than what they got, it's too bad the students will be the ones that really are affected.

Why should the NCAA collect the $60 million? What did they do? Why isn't this money going towards the victims?

I hate sports above high school level.

The only sport I watch is football and that's only 1 game, the SuperBowl and that's mostly for the commercials.

3dfxMM wrote:I think they didn't go far enough. I don't care if the NCAA has the authority to do what they did or not. I hope it sticks.

And that, my friend, is exactly what is wrong with this country. People allow their emotions to rule them rather than reason, and so "officials" can get away with almost anything, even if they have no legal authority to do so. And before you know it, you've ceded your freedom and you're living in tyranny. As we are rapidly approaching here in the US.

jocat54 wrote:I don't know what authority the NCAA has....but they did it and Penn St agreed...sounds like a done deal to me.

Precisely. And now that the precedent has been set, a school can be punished for an employee getting arrested for being drunk, abusing their wife or any other crime.

When you give governmental officials an inch, they will take a mile. The NCAA will never be the same, and neither will collegiate sports. All the schools will live in fear of the hammer coming down on them for something someone affiliated with them did. It's a sad day in college sports.

n5wd wrote:

C-dub wrote:As deplorable as what they all did is, what NCAA rule did they break? Maybe the did break some NCAA rule, IDK. Whatever rule it might have been it couldn't possibly be justified with the punishment they have handed down. The guilty will be punished by the legal system. The NCAA had no business sticking their noses in this and I hope the school does appeal this and win.

The U of Penn administration not only agreed that the NCAA did have the right to impose the penalties it did, but they also agreed (by signing the NCAA's proposal) to the factuality of all of the charges levied in the report by the former FBI Director, admitting that everything the Freech report said heppened, did indeed happen. They will not sue the NCAA - they're happy as pigs in a mud bath that the penalties weren't worse, such as the so-called "death penalty".

The justice system has no way to deal with the "school" - it can only punish individuals. By allowing the reputation of the school's football program, and their coach, to drive their decision to not protect innocent children (remember, the administration of the school knew for 10 YEARS that Sandusky had abused children IN THEIR OWN FACILITIES and did NOTHING about it ) they violated the basic duty of humanity - to protect those who can't protect themselves.

I guess you're right that Penn is happy they didn't get the death penalty. They probably didn't want to seam like they were protecting that scum or hurt the victim's any more. If they are trying to take the high road and do the honorable thing I can respect that.

I don't know the answer to my next question. Did the school board know about all this or was it a policy to hide everything or was it really just the act of a few individuals? I really am torn between punishing those that condoned Sandusky's actions by not reporting him to the police and punishing the current and past students and athletes for their actions. The guilty are not the least bit concerned for the students or athletes.

C-dub wrote:
I guess you're right that Penn is happy they didn't get the death penalty.

Might as well have been the death penalty. This is unprecedented since SMU in the 80's

On the radio today I heard the term that Penn St. failed to "maintain institutional control". I guess thats why the NCAA can do what they did? I'm no expert.

baldeagle wrote:

jocat54 wrote:I don't know what authority the NCAA has....but they did it and Penn St agreed...sounds like a done deal to me.

Precisely. And now that the precedent has been set, a school can be punished for an employee getting arrested for being drunk, abusing their wife or any other crime.

When you give governmental officials an inch, they will take a mile. The NCAA will never be the same, and neither will collegiate sports. All the schools will live in fear of the hammer coming down on them for something someone affiliated with them did. It's a sad day in college sports.

What he said.

baldeagle wrote:

jocat54 wrote:I don't know what authority the NCAA has....but they did it and Penn St agreed...sounds like a done deal to me.

Precisely. And now that the precedent has been set, a school can be punished for an employee getting arrested for being drunk, abusing their wife or any other crime.

When you give governmental officials an inch, they will take a mile. The NCAA will never be the same, and neither will collegiate sports. All the schools will live in fear of the hammer coming down on them for something someone affiliated with them did. It's a sad day in college sports.

The school is not being punished for the illegal activity of an employee. The school is being punished for willfully and knowingly covering up the illegal activity of an employee for a period of many, many years.

baldeagle wrote:

jocat54 wrote:I don't know what authority the NCAA has....but they did it and Penn St agreed...sounds like a done deal to me.

Precisely. And now that the precedent has been set, a school can be punished for an employee getting arrested for being drunk, abusing their wife or any other crime.

When you give governmental officials an inch, they will take a mile. The NCAA will never be the same, and neither will collegiate sports. All the schools will live in fear of the hammer coming down on them for something someone affiliated with them did. It's a sad day in college sports.

They aren't being punished for something someone affiliated with them did. They are being punished for willfully covering up the illegal acts of one of their employees for the sake of the school's and the football program's reputations. As for punishing the athletes and students, too bad. Penn State's football program's reputation was built on a lie to begin with. All the time they were off doing such grand things, they were also allowing Sandusky to continue what he was doing. The students and athletes should feel shame over what their school has done, not anger because they got caught.

Typically, when one refers to government officials, it is in reference to someone actually in the local/state/federal government. That is not the case here.

If football players were raping female students and the school covered it up, would that be acceptable as long as they were winning football games?

3dfxMM wrote:

baldeagle wrote:

jocat54 wrote:I don't know what authority the NCAA has....but they did it and Penn St agreed...sounds like a done deal to me.

Precisely. And now that the precedent has been set, a school can be punished for an employee getting arrested for being drunk, abusing their wife or any other crime.

When you give governmental officials an inch, they will take a mile. The NCAA will never be the same, and neither will collegiate sports. All the schools will live in fear of the hammer coming down on them for something someone affiliated with them did. It's a sad day in college sports.

As for punishing the athletes and students, too bad. The students and athletes should feel shame over what their school has done, not anger because they got caught.

That's a rather cavalier attitude toward the students & athletes that did nothing wrong themselves. All the work and accomplishments of the individual players were stripped away. Would you feel any differently if one of your kids had played there 10 years ago, and now all his efforts and successes were simply wiped off the record books for all time...as if he never existed and accomplished anything. I think most of them are ashamed at what took place...I would be...but to just say "too bad" about it is "tarring with too broad a brush". I'm all for punishing any of the officials that they have proof were involved in a cover up, but punishing anyone who was NOT directly involved, for something someone else did, is simply not justice nor is it right.

smoothoperator wrote:If football players were raping female students and the school covered it up, would that be acceptable as long as they were winning football games?

Of course not, and in that situation those players that DID it and the officials that DID cover it up should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The ones that had nothing to do with it should not be...they are innocent, and this is America....and that doesn't change whether they have a winning record or lost every game.

I don’t know. I have a problem with punishing the innocent along with the guilty. Guilt by association or whatever you call it.

If the administration had this knowledge and covered it up, they should go to jail period. End of story.

3dfxMM
The students and athletes should feel shame over what their school has done, not anger because they got caught.

Should the former enron employees feel shame over what Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling did, even though they didn’t know? The students and athletes should feel anger but that anger should be at Sandusky and those that knew and let it continue. The students and athletes should not be ashamed. They did not do anything wrong. They have no reason to feel shame.

Typically, when one refers to government officials, it is in reference to someone actually in the local/state/federal government. That is not the case here.

The NCAA has the power to set rules and assess fines. Is that not a governing body? They may not be Federal, State or local government as we normally think and speak of it, but would another term be more appropriate?

I agree with baldeagle. The NCAA should have kept their noses out of this and allowed it to be handled by law enforcement.

smoothoperator wrote:If football players were raping female students and the school covered it up, would that be acceptable as long as they were winning football games?

That's the wrong question. The question is would it be the responsibility of the NCAA to punish the team for what the athletes did? Under their charter, it would not. The purpose of the NCAA is to ensure competitiveness in intercollegiate sports and to punish any attempts to gain a competitive advantage. How would football players raping female students affect that competitiveness in a way that grants the NCAA the right to do something about it?

If an athlete commits a crime, should the NCAA force the school to remove the athlete's scholarship if the school does not do so?