TexasCHLforum.com

I made copies of everything but was hoping that for a renewal I wouldn't need to submit the court docs all over again.

MoJo wrote: DPS does keep the documents but, as I understand, they don't require them again when renewing.

Not so sure about that.

I have a friend who was charged with multiple firearms-related felonies in CA that was the blowback from a vengeful ex-wife in the middle of a divorce.

All charges were eventually dropped, although he never got roughly 40 firearms back that had been seized. His lawyer told him it would take $30k in legal fees and three years to get his firearms back. He promptly moved to Texas and used that money for new firearms instead of legal fees.

He provided case dispositions regarding all the above for his first CHL. For his renewal, he couldn't understand what was taking so long. You guessed it. He had to get new certified copies of all the case dispositions from the court in CA. Took him a few months the get his renewal.

MoJo wrote:It's better to be upfront about these things than have charges of falsification of government documents...

Yep. I agree. Mostly.

GC §411.172. ELIGIBILITY. (a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a concealed handgun if the person:...
(14) has not made any material misrepresentation, or failed to disclose any material fact, in an application submitted pursuant to Section 411.174.

GC §411.174. APPLICATION. (a) An applicant for a license to carry a concealed handgun must submit to the director's designee described by Section 411.176:...
(7) criminal history record information of the type maintained by the department under this chapter, including a list of offenses for which the applicant was arrested, charged, or under an information or indictment and the disposition of the offenses...

The message is that an applicant needs to be very careful about failing to disclose arrests, charges, or indictments. If under GC §411.172 it is determined that an applicant has failed to disclose material facts, he or she could be denied a CHL...forever.

Only a minority of charges are actually expunged. See Title 1: Code of Criminal Procedure, Chapter 55: Expunction of Criminal Records.

It is vital to obtain the disposition records of the offense if at all possible. That's what will tell you whether applying for a CHL is practical, and whether or not you must disclose the offense.

If you did not disclose an applicable offense and obtained a CHL anyway, that does not mean a future background check might not catch up to you later.

Skiprr wrote:If you did not disclose an applicable offense and obtained a CHL anyway, that does not mean a future background check might not catch up to you later.

Including potential new charges for falsifying the application.

Jumping Frog wrote:

Geaux Tigers wrote:I had a felony in college in another state and got probation for a first offense. It didn't show up in the national computer check so I didn't list it on my application. I had no issues getting my Texas CHL a month ago.

The probation is immaterial, as that is simply the sentencing.

What about your conviction? Were you actually convicted of the felony, or did you plead to a lesser offense?

Yes but I completed probation and it doesn't show up in the national instant check. No records.

IF it has been expunged, legally, it didn't happen. A first blush inquiry will not reveal the expunsion and the circumstances that led to the expunction. An indepth search could reveal not only the expunction but your Aunt Susan's Great Grand Daddy's birthday.

Tx DPS has a web-site that lists Public Information. Arrest Records are Public Information and are available for scrutiny. Check it out. Understand that an accusation (arrest) isn't he same as a conviction (Judge pssing sentence, & banging the gavel).

Another source is Public Data. com Its relative inexpensive and, most likey what prospective employers would use to check out applicants. No mention on DPS records of the, now Expunged accusation, but a brush with Mesquite P.D. when I was 17 years old was there.

Me, I called Austin, told the nice lady that an arrest was made, DA chose not to follow through, charges were expunged, and my CHL application that was in process didn't list that history. She said 'Don't worry about it, expunged is expunged'. Rec'd CHL a week or two later. I also have a Haz Mat endorsement on Tx Com DL.

That was a few years back.

I wouldn't tell. It didn't happen.

salty

You do not have to do a thing. It does not exist anymore. Forget it ever happened.

chl2012 wrote:Hello everyone, I am new to the forum. Just took the CHL class today. On the application it says to list all arrests, crimes, etc. It also mentions the need for certified court documents regarding disposition of cases. In 1997 I was charged with DUI in Pennsylvania and the records have since been expunged. It is my understanding that expunged documents cannot be re-opened. How could I get any sort of disposition letter for records that don't exist? Will this cause a denial of my CHL? Thanks in advance for the tips.

You need to physically request a copy of your criminal history to see if it is on there or not. Your history might show an arrest with no disposition on it. I encounter people all the time with "expunged" charges that show on their criminal history. They need to request for it to be removed. I don't know the process there, but TX is easy. You pay DPS for your criminal history (CCH). Then you can complain and DPS then does the leg work to verify items on the CCH. For records itself, check the court it went through to see if they have a record. Most places purge stuff after so many years.

I used to live in Michigan, got my CCW in 2001, renewed recently when it became a CPL, move to Texas in Sept. Took CHL class end of Oct. It has now been 70+ days. I emailed the state since phone calls were busy/long waits due to holidays and Sandy Hook shooting...I reported an arrest for time unknown that was expunged on the same basis as others, didn't want to not reveal it even though it essentially never happened... now I get this email response.

Dear Applicant,

Thank you for giving the Department the opportunity to respond to your email regarding your Texas Concealed Handgun license.

At this time we are awaiting the completion of the background investigation. A technician has been assigned to your application to make sure that all the charges/arrests on your record are non-disqualifying. A detailed letter may be sent to you in regards to needing more information about one or more of your prior arrests. The letter will give you all the details and information you need to comply. Please wait to receive the letter, then call us with any questions you may have regarding the letter.

“GC §411.176. REVIEW OF APPLICATION MATERIALS…
(d) On receipt at the department's Austin headquarters of the application materials and the result of the investigation by the director's designee, the department shall conduct any further record check or investigation the department determines is necessary if a question exists with respect to the accuracy of the application materials or the eligibility of the applicant, except that the department shall complete the record check and investigation not later than the 180th day after the date the department receives the application materials from the applicant.”


Should you have any additional questions or need further assistance, please contact Concealed Handgun Licensing Customer Relations at 1-512-424-7293.

I decided to call (517) 241-0606 (Search, Modify, Locate, Set Aside or Expungement of Criminal History Records)
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-12 ... --,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the lady said nothing showed up on my record and I didn't need to report it, only thing that shows up is my CPL License is Valid, and she said that if she was called by Texas DPS in regards she would tell them the same thing.

I think if Texas CHL/DPS doesn't deny CHL's based on EXPUNGED Records then that should clearly be noted somewhere in the Application, because I don't recall the date in which this happened, it was 15 years ago give or take, and they show no record of it, so how am I supposed to give them more information about an EXPUNGED arrest. Truthfully I feel that my honesty is creating more of a problem than it's worth and I only mentioned it because I am NOT a LAWYER and didn't want to get in any trouble by not releasing information and later be determined to have lied, when by law I don't think it is lying...hard to say.

If I wasn't denied in Michigan twice over an expungement I don't see how I can be denied here, I also have been told by three police officer's/detectives and the DPS that Reciprocity recognizes my Michigan CPL which doesn't expire until 2016...seems to be much ado about nothing!

I also aced the written test for the CHL 50/50 in a class taught by a Fort Worth Police Officer. I just prefer to have the Texas CHL ASAP so I know that I am 100% Legal without question!

*note I was arrested, never convicted and the arrest record was expunged as per judges orders. funny semi-related story--When driving to Windsor, Canada for the first time the lady asked me if I was a U.S. Citizen, at first I didn't quite hear her (had the radio up quite loud for about an hour prior) and I kind of thought the question was stupid as I had never been asked before and was thinking about it, like yeah..DUH..I'm coming from the U.S. of course I'm a U.S. Citizen.. so she had to repeat herself and ask again and I told her YES. after some more questioning she sent me to the SIDE for further interviewing, etc.. went inside and the lady asked if I had ever been arrested before, and I said yes and no, she lol'd and says "What do you mean yes and no?" I said well I was arrested but the charges were dropped and the arrest expunged but I am not sure if they were truly erased from my record or not and if they were not then you would say I was lying...so she ran a check and said I'm good, nothing was found and wait for the lady to meet me by my car.... then I go outside and wait by the car, Lady Officer comes up with a Drug Dog and does a check on the vehicle, asks me to open the trunk..so I do, then wants me to remove the huge subwoofer box in the trunk.. I said I would try but it's pretty hard to get out... so me and my friend tried for 5 minutes until finally the officer said don't worry about and and let us go on our way!... I have since gone to canada numerous times and never had any delay other than the typical line of cars in front of me.. takes like 30 seconds and free to go wherever I am heading!

Checked Status ONLINE says Background check completed, manufacturing pending!

I wouldn't worry about it too much. When I was 18-19 around '04 I got a class A assault charge and because I was sick of driving to downtown Houston from Katy every month to reset the court date I took a plea for deferred adjudication with expungment upon completion. After it was expunged it did show up in an interview the following year or two but that was it. When I submitted my CHL paperwork last spring the arresting precinct had no record of it when I called and the County Clerk all they had was the date of the arrest and no other info. I just wrote the date of the arresst and added that it was expunged and I was innocent in the notes section next to it. Just make sure to include all the info you can remember including that it was expunged. I got my CHL in record time maybe a little over 4 weeks with the online application.

I dunno if I did mine right or not, but I am not sure it mattered.

Had a bounced check to the DPS for car registration bounce, forgot about it, ended up with a warrant. I went to the court, paid it, was told to to a "No Cost Bond", and given deferred adjudication. This would have been in summer 2009. As far as I can tell, it is a class C misdemeanor, so it shouldn't affect me either way.

In 2002 I was caught stealing gift cards from CompUSA in California. Pled no contest to petty theft under $500, was given a fine, paid restitution, etc and given summary probation for 3 or 5 years (I can't recall). I've been told it is eligible for expungement, but also been advised it's not necessarily worth the cost since most agencies can see it anyway (plus its been 10 years).

I don't have any paperwork on anything, and I didn't see where it asked me to submit any. Do I need to attempt to gather any paperwork, or is listing it on the application enough? Also, In San Diego County (where I was arrested), the court clerk's website states that misdemeanor records are destroyed after 5 years, so I'm not sure what there is to find anyway.

Also, I wasn't certain of the dates, so I put on both "The date provided are to the best of my memory. Any error is unintentional." I know when I did my background for my security clearance in 2008, the CA thing wasn't a problem, so I can't imagine it mattering for my TxCHL.

MoJo wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:It's my understanding that if you have something expunged you do not have to reveal it to anyone. Never happened.

CHL application in Texas is an exception.

No, the CHL application is not an exception. If something has been expunged, it didn't happen. Unless the other party can legally tell you why you would have to reveal an expungement before even asking such a question, the respondent should keep his or her mouth shut and reply "No" to any verbal questions and write "No" in response to any written questions!

StevenFromTexas wrote:No, the CHL application is not an exception. If something has been expunged, it didn't happen. Unless the other party can legally tell you why you would have to reveal an expungement before even asking such a question, the respondent should keep his or her mouth shut and reply "No" to any verbal questions and write "No" in response to any written questions!

Go ahead if you're willing to take that gamble. If they find the record of the arrest and you claimed you were never arrested, don't be surprised if DPS (or employers) wonder what else you're hiding from them. And rightly so IMHO.

tbrown wrote:

StevenFromTexas wrote:No, the CHL application is not an exception. If something has been expunged, it didn't happen. Unless the other party can legally tell you why you would have to reveal an expungement before even asking such a question, the respondent should keep his or her mouth shut and reply "No" to any verbal questions and write "No" in response to any written questions!

Go ahead if you're willing to take that gamble. If they find the record of the arrest and you claimed you were never arrested, don't be surprised if DPS (or employers) wonder what else you're hiding from them. And rightly so IMHO.

It isn't a gamble. I stand by my original reply, which is crystal clear. However, I would never stop anyone from being in a state of fog when completing an application who doesn't know what expungement involves or what expungement even means.

My last reply on this topic.

You need to check your criminal history for that state. Just because a case may be expunged, it doesn't mean it came off w/o your doing the leg work.