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Re: US appeals court strikes down state's concealed-carry ba
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:34 pm
by jimlongley
Keith B wrote:And all they have to do is make it a 'May Issue' state and then direct the approving agency to not issue a license to anyone unless they are a 'buddy' or large financial contributor to an elected official's campaign fund.
Kind of like NY.
Re: US appeals court strikes down state's concealed-carry ba
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:39 pm
by barstoolguru
the shot hears a round the USA...
Re: US appeals court strikes down state's concealed-carry ba
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:47 pm
by i8godzilla
jimlongley wrote:Keith B wrote:And all they have to do is make it a 'May Issue' state and then direct the approving agency to not issue a license to anyone unless they are a 'buddy' or large financial contributor to an elected official's campaign fund.
Kind of like NY.
MD is currently trying to
defend this position. They lost the first round. Let's see if there is relief from the Fourth Circuit Court. We can only hope that the result is the same as IL's defeat. Looks like both cases could reach the High Court about the same time.
Re: US appeals court strikes down state's concealed-carry ba
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:03 pm
by VMI77
Not always. It can be the fault of the shooter in circumstances where the shooter is of the wrong political or social persuasion and the person shot is a member of a "victim" class. This is most clearly seen in the UK, where, for example, if a farmer shoots a couple of thugs who have broken into his home in the middle of the night and threaten his family, it is the farmer's fault and he goes to prison. The thugs are excused by virtue of the official status as "victims." If the thugs go to prison at all, they will serve much less time than the farmer. Now, if the thugs used a gun to kill the farmer and his wife, it would be the gun's fault, and the system would need to show leniency.
Re: US appeals court strikes down state's concealed-carry ba
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:52 pm
by flb_78
I hope that it's a "shall issue" license instead of a "may issue" license. Hawaii has concealed carry, but they only issue one or two licenses a year.
Re: US appeals court strikes down state's concealed-carry ba
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:30 pm
by ELB
stroo wrote:Judge Posner wrote the opinion. He is one of the best judges around. Should be on the Supreme Court. ....
No, I don't thinks so. He is no friend of the 2A, and did not like Heller at all. Apparently his respect for precedent by SCOTUS overrode his legal beliefs about the 2A, which is good. But don't think we need him where he can set final precedents himself....
Anyway.
There is a concealed carry bill waiting in the wings. Note that the IL house voted 2:1 in favor of passing it, but apparently some kind of super-majority was needed. If I read the synopsis of the bill correctly (link below), it appears to be shall-issue, and pre-empts "home-rule" authorities from regulating possession and transportation of firearms -- with certain exceptions. I haven't figured out what those are just yet.
From
http://blogs.suntimes.com/politics/2012 ... apons.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In May 2011, gun-rights advocates lost a bid in the Illinois House to legalize concealed carry by a 65-32 vote. Seventy-one votes were necessary for passage of the legislation, House Bill 148, which was lobbied against by Gov. Pat Quinn and Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel.
The measure, sponsored by state Rep. Brandon Phelps (D-Harrisburg), would have enabled Illinoisans to carry concealed weapons if they had a firearm owner's identification card and underwent a firearms education course.
Under the failed bill, permit holders could not have been a patient in a mental institution in the previous five years nor have any felony, violent misdemeanor or drug convictions in the previous 10 years.
Concealed weapons also wouldn't have been allowed under the plan at government buildings, courthouses, schools, sports arenas and stadiums, amusement parks, libraries or college campuses.
At the time of the vote, the Illinois State Police estimated that 325,000 people would taken advantage of a concealed-carry program, which was projected to raise $32 million annually for the state through license fees.
Phelps would not rule out possibly trying to move concealed carry legislation during the upcoming lame-duck legislative session, which runs from Jan. 2 through mid-day on Jan. 9. But he stopped short of saying how closely a new bill would mimic HB148.
Link to the bill:
http://ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus. ... ssionID=84" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: US appeals court strikes down state's concealed-carry ba
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:06 pm
by Oldgringo
Illinois is one of those states that could truly secede from itself and let Chicago and Cook County be the 51st state or vice versa. Kinda like New York and Kalifornia could kinda' split up, too. There are way different cultures and mindsets in these three blue states that separately could alter the future of this country.
Y'all do know that West Virginia seceded from Virgina shortly after the battle of Gettysburg, dont you? There is precedent.
Just thinkin' out loud....
Re: US appeals court strikes down state's concealed-carry ba
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:59 pm
by jimlongley
Oldgringo wrote:Illinois is one of those states that could truly secede from itself and let Chicago and Cook County be the 51st state or vice versa. Kinda like New York and Kalifornia could kinda' split up, too. There are way different cultures and mindsets in these three blue states that separately could alter the future of this country.
Y'all do know that West Virginia seceded from Virgina shortly after the battle of Gettysburg, dont you? There is precedent.
Just thinkin' out loud....
Yeah, for a while when I lived in NY (upstate) I was a member of a group dedicated to a legislative effort to do just that - sever ourselves from NY City or vice versa. Never really got far, but we hoped and tried.
Re: US appeals court strikes down state's concealed-carry ba
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:10 pm
by jimlongley
ELB wrote: . . .In May 2011, gun-rights advocates lost a bid in the Illinois House to legalize concealed carry by a 65-32 vote. Seventy-one votes were necessary for passage of the legislation, House Bill 148, which was lobbied against by Gov. Pat Quinn and Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel.
Only needed 71 votes due to legislative trickery, with the democrat majority leader ruling that "home rule" requirements meant that the bill needed the "super majority" rather than a simple majority (60 votes) which it had easily.
Re: US appeals court strikes down state's concealed-carry ba
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:50 am
by A-R
Miller from Washington Times wrote article about possible far-reaching implications of this decision
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/ ... l-dilemma/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Particularly interesting:
“The language of Moore strongly suggested that the ‘may issue’ is not going to fly,” said Mr. Gura. “It said that the right outside the home is just as important as inside.” As Judge Posner wrote, “A Chicagoan is a good deal more likely to be attacked on a sidewalk in a rough neighborhood than in his apartment on the 35th floor of the Park Tower.”
