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SewTexas wrote:Ted Cruz announced today he will fight an EO

I'm so glad that Rep. Cruz isn't being passive on this whole issue.

Ted Cruz, after barely a week in office showing real leadership! I hope John Cornyn is taking note...

nightmare wrote:

Slowplay wrote:Do Executive Orders have to be honored/followed?

The executive branch enforces the rules. Do you think Holder (FBI) or Geithner (ATF) or Napolitano (DHS) will refuse to enforce any order Obama issues?

The point I was trying to make is that the obama admin has provided an argument against the legal status of such an executive order (that conflicts with current law). That's why I said this:

So, they've already made the case that EOs can't be applied when there is a conflict with current law!

More than anything it points out another instance of hypocrisy - the Obama admin has taken many actions that are counter to established law and this would be just another in a growing list.

If you're wondering exactly WHAT Obama can do via EO, he can do this. He can probably do this without an EO - just have the BATFE make an administrative rule change. Such as reclassifying all "assault weapons" as Type 2 NFA items. BOOM! They're now restricted and no Congressional bill needs to pass. Simply an administrative classification change.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/obamas-secre ... your-guns/

The President doesn't have the power to make laws, he can make an EO but who would enforce such an order that was a violation of our rights? I don't think it would take to long to have a gun ban EO nullified...I may be wrong but I prefer to keep my thoughts optimistic, but keep my safe stocked JIC.

For a carpenter, most problems are solved with a hammer. I'd suggest that the same might apply here. So I'll suggest the idea of civil disobedience as a possible course of action if the administration tries to bypass congress. In the UK & Australia, the process went #1 register firearms, #2 ban/outlaw the ownership of firearms, #3 confiscate outlawed firearms. By simply refusing to register any firearms, it makes it a lot tougher for the confiscation that would sure to be coming down the road. I imagine that if all of this came to be, that the gov't would start with the states that already require registration since that would be the most complete & up-to-date information and the easiest to execute. By the time they got around to tackling the states that do not have registration, there might be other counter-measures taken by pro-2A legislators or lawsuits filed by pro-2A groups on behalf of their memberships making it all a moot point. Or not.

I think that for right now, the most prudent course of action would be to make regular contact with our elected officials and continue to voice our objection to proposed limits to the 2nd Amendment. And so that we're not only preaching to the choir, we should probably start being active in other forums (facebook, twitter, news outlet website comments, etc). But just remember to keep your cool & keep presenting rational, fact-based arguments in a cordial manner.

jdhz28 wrote:The President doesn't have the power to make laws, he can make an EO but who would enforce such an order that was a violation of our rights? I don't think it would take to long to have a gun ban EO nullified...I may be wrong but I prefer to keep my thoughts optimistic, but keep my safe stocked JIC.

I agree that such an EO would receive sufficent resistance to be nulified. But if push really came to shove, Articles of Impeachment might still be a viable option.

However, as a certified auditor, I know a few of the tricks of the trade. An IRS or BATF audit could make an FFL's life really miserable. Full, no holds barred audits to the current laws, crossing every "T" and dotting every "I" can be absolutely brutal. These tools have been used in the past and are always available.

An Executive Order (and the lesser Executive Memorandum, Presidential Directive, etc) cannot make new law (might try to - but would likely be overturned by the court or unfunded by congress, or just flat ignored by the agencies - which has happened in the past). Instead, the EO is supposed to 'assist' the department/agency, or branch (of government) in implementing, clarifying requirements, or strengthening, an existing law - which also could be reviewed by the courts to determine if Presidential authority has been exceeded (especially if a legal challenge arises - and you know that will happen). An EO which gets an authorizing resolution from Congress can be implemented - for instance an order for declaration of war.

IMHO - hand-wringing right now is probably just a waste of time. As pointed out in a post above, the rest of the President's crew are hard at it trying to find what is already on the books that can be modified by an EO to do whatever is in their narrow little mindset. Seriously doubt they will be able to do little more than strengthen the existing background check - I just don't think there is room for anything else.

My belief that the "Joe Biden Information Gathering Circus" is just for show. Obama and his handlers know exactly what laws/bans/confiscations they are going to push through and already have the furthest reaching laws that they have any hope of passing drawn up. Obama leads with a sense of moral superiority that I have never witnessed in my life from anyone. I believe that the Executive Order play is to put something through that he knows Congress will not allow and then use his national media propaganda machine to support his order in an effort to shame everyone into silence.

At the end of the day, Obama and many of his team members are attorneys and this "Executive Order" is a bit of a legal trick. I have been working hard to get everyone I know who owns a gun of any sort to join the NRA. Times are tough, but if you haven't made a contribution to the NRA recently, please do. The NRA has great lawyers and we are going to have to file lawsuits and fight this in court. At this point, our best strategy is to fight any Executive Order in the courts and pressure our Senate and Congress by causing them fear in the next election cycle. The NRA is the best and only tool we have to do this.

karder wrote:My belief that the "Joe Biden Information Gathering Circus" is just for show. Obama and his handlers know exactly what laws/bans/confiscations they are going to push through and already have the furthest reaching laws that they have any hope of passing drawn up. Obama leads with a sense of moral superiority that I have never witnessed in my life from anyone. I believe that the Executive Order play is to put something through that he knows Congress will not allow and then use his national media propaganda machine to support his order in an effort to shame everyone into silence.

At the end of the day, Obama and many of his team members are attorneys and this "Executive Order" is a bit of a legal trick. I have been working hard to get everyone I know who owns a gun of any sort to join the NRA. Times are tough, but if you haven't made a contribution to the NRA recently, please do. The NRA has great lawyers and we are going to have to file lawsuits and fight this in court. At this point, our best strategy is to fight any Executive Order in the courts and pressure our Senate and Congress by causing them fear in the next election cycle. The NRA is the best and only tool we have to do this.

100,000 New members since the Sandy Hook shootings! I love it! Let the lawyers hash it out for the next four years.

Brains before bullets

jdhz28 wrote:The President doesn't have the power to make laws, he can make an EO but who would enforce such an order that was a violation of our rights?

To rephrase nightmare, do you expect the heads of the FBI, ATF or DHS to wake up one morning and suddenly stop enforcing unconstitutional laws and orders and start caring about our rights? Have you been to the airport or submitted a Form 1 lately?

recaffeination wrote:

jdhz28 wrote:The President doesn't have the power to make laws, he can make an EO but who would enforce such an order that was a violation of our rights?

To rephrase nightmare, do you expect the heads of the FBI, ATF or DHS to wake up one morning and suddenly stop enforcing unconstitutional laws and orders and start caring about our rights? Have you been to the airport or submitted a Form 1 lately?

I think a certain majority of LEO's wouldn't enforce any type of EO that was a blatant violation of our rights...And yes, I fly fly internationally quite frequently and know most of the CBP officers by name. I think they are all just doing their job and they haven't been told to enforce something that crossed a line with them yet that was worth them losing their job over. If the was an outright ban or confiscation, I would like to believe there would be a very large amount of LEO's that would not comply or simply retire. Regardless of the organization, or badge, they are still people...

Title II of the NFA defines a machine gun as a weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically...

My guess is they will use an EO or a BATF regulation to redefine semi-automatic rifles as weapons that "can be readily restored to shoot" automatically and therefore as machine guns under the NFA.

If so, it will take a court case to overturn or defunding of the ATF by Congress.

stroo wrote:Title II of the NFA defines a machine gun as a weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically...

My guess is they will use an EO or a BATF regulation to redefine semi-automatic rifles as weapons that "can be readily restored to shoot" automatically and therefore as machine guns under the NFA.

If so, it will take a court case to overturn or defunding of the ATF by Congress.

My opinion it that to be, "restored to" means it once was.

jdhz28 wrote:

recaffeination wrote:

jdhz28 wrote:The President doesn't have the power to make laws, he can make an EO but who would enforce such an order that was a violation of our rights?

To rephrase nightmare, do you expect the heads of the FBI, ATF or DHS to wake up one morning and suddenly stop enforcing unconstitutional laws and orders and start caring about our rights? Have you been to the airport or submitted a Form 1 lately?

I think a certain majority of LEO's wouldn't enforce any type of EO that was a blatant violation of our rights...And yes, I fly fly internationally quite frequently and know most of the CBP officers by name.

I think he was talking about Team Sexual Assault, also known as the granny gropers in some circles.